I'd also say the Saints have had bad playoff losses under Brees that were out of his control, like last year against the Vikings and in 2011 against the 49ers. The defense gave both of those games away at the very end and Brees did everything he could to win. I think the Saints would have had a realistic shot of winning the conference championship and super bowl in both years had they closed out those games.
The Vikings didn't think Bridgewater would be good for him and Hill is a gadget guy.
I'm just speculating.
He's not retiring after the season. No chance with $23M in cash coming his way next year.
Star wrote:
The Vikings didn't think Bridgewater would be good for him and Hill is a gadget guy.
I'm just speculating.
broadway sam wrote:
Even if he is, he's only keeping the seat warm for Sam Darnold
No freakin' way Darnold ever surpasses Mark Sanchez!
SAlly V wrote:
The Riot wrote:
Brady, Peyton Manning, Elway, and Bradshaw are all far ahead of Brees for GOAT.
How can you say Manning is way ahead ? He only won one Super Bowl and the Colts won with his subpar performance.
I don’t know that you’ve ever posted on a sports thread without saying something embarrassingly idiotic.
Manning won two Super Bowls. Even casual sports fans know this.
No chance. To get to the top he is going to have to surpass:
#3) Chuck Long
#2) Colin Kaepernick
#1) Clint Longley
He's got a LONG way to go!
rib nerd wrote:
FYI- I'm a Cowboys fan so I don't have a dog in the fight.
What do you mean? Romo.
Rpkp
PS. Joking. I was a huge Romo fan but have no idea how he'd rank. Like was he the 8th best QB in the league when he was in there, 5th? 12th?
mfrank wrote:
3hr-marathoner wrote:
...Tom Brady thinks that winning is the #1 measure of a quarterback.
But, as I also said, who's the greatest "depends on how it's measured, of course." Winning is the measure of a team in a team sport, by definition. For forming or having an opinion on the greatest player at a given position, he or you or anyone else can setup your own criteria how ever you want. But that won't necessarily convince others, and I am unconvinced that winning is the only or best measure of who is the greatest in a team sport.
The trouble is that any metric is team dependent so why not go with the most important one: winning? Pick a metric like completion percentage or passer rating and dig deeper and you quickly find that they are largely team metrics. It's much easier to be a quarterback when you have protection and good receivers and a running game that is enough of a threat to keep the team from blitzing. In the NFL of today, an offensive's success is so tied to a quartback's success that it's impossible to separate them.
None of this applies to every team sport or every position. It would be crazy to rate a fieldgoal kicker by the team's winning percentage but for quarterbacks in football and starting pitchers in baseball and maybe franchise basketball stars, team wins is the only thing that really matters.
Top 5 quarterbacks all-time (in terms of overall achievement)
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Joe Montana
4. Drew Brees
5. Aaron Rodgers
Honorable Mentions (5-10, not ordered): Young, Elway, Favre, Unitas, Marino
If Rodgers can stay healthy and get in a few more elite seasons, he'll jump Brees in my opinion (but won't get any higher than 4 unless he gets another ring). Brees missed the playoffs many times because of bad defenses, whereas Rodgers had the Packers in the playoffs 8 straight years with some pretty awful defenses and an inferior head coach (Pretty objectively McCarthy
"I'd also say the Saints have had bad playoff losses under Brees that were out of his control, like last year against the Vikings and in 2011 against the 49ers. The defense gave both of those games away at the very end and Brees did everything he could to win. I think the Saints would have had a realistic shot of winning the conference championship and super bowl in both years had they closed out those games."
so by this standard Brady has 7 SB wins (both Giants) and one more AFC Championship/SB appearance (2006 Colts)?
It's Brady.
/thread
brady
he has double the playoff wins compared to the #2 guy.
most championships.
still playing
gonna finish 1,2 in all offensive categories
ahead of brees, payton in td:interception ration by a wide margin.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_quarterback_playoff_records
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm
Summer Brees wrote:
He will have two NFL titles to go along all the other accolades he has accumulated over the years. He has played with inferior talent at New Orleans but has excelled all the way. Drew has walked the walk!
Man, why do I never get any respect on these threads? I mean come on, I’m a nice guy. So what’s the deal?
Peyton Manning may have the stats but he does not deserve to be in the equation for a top-5.
His record in Indianapolis was inflated by playing two atrocious, expansion-level teams twice a year (I'm talking about the Texans and the Titans). This was an almost guaranteed four wins per year.
Manning's playoff record is actually really terrible. Most years, his teams were one and done. 9 times. His overall completion record, interception percentage, etc, are worse in the playoffs than the regular season. He played worse in big games. Almost every year.
Look at his stat logs from the one season he won a Super Bowl with the Colts. In the playoffs he threw 3TD passes and 7 picks. Yes, 7 picks. In one of those games he went 15-30 with zero tds and 2 picks. Defense bailed him out.
Same scenario the year he won a title with the Broncos. His stats were terrible but the defense carried the team.
Brees is or will pass him up in stats, and if Brees wins another title, I would put him above Manning for sure. Brady is the clear #1, not sure why anyone would argue that. Maybe Montana #2. After that, it gets harder for more "modern" era quarterbacks.
For the old schools guys, it's clearly Bart Starr. In a league that didn't favor passing, he set records that still stand today. He still holds the highest postseason passer rating. Dude was a winner.
Star wrote:
The Vikings didn't think Bridgewater would be good for him and Hill is a gadget guy.
I'm just speculating.
You are speculating out of thin air. There are teams in needs of Foles now, who have the space to take him onboard.... unlike the Saints.
Whoever's/when gonna replace Brees wont be Foles... and chances are he's already in the building
Danny Democrat wrote:
Peyton Manning may have the stats but he does not deserve to be in the equation for a top-5.
His record in Indianapolis was inflated by playing two atrocious, expansion-level teams twice a year (I'm talking about the Texans and the Titans). This was an almost guaranteed four wins per year.
Manning's playoff record is actually really terrible. Most years, his teams were one and done. 9 times. His overall completion record, interception percentage, etc, are worse in the playoffs than the regular season. He played worse in big games. Almost every year.
Look at his stat logs from the one season he won a Super Bowl with the Colts. In the playoffs he threw 3TD passes and 7 picks. Yes, 7 picks. In one of those games he went 15-30 with zero tds and 2 picks. Defense bailed him out.
Same scenario the year he won a title with the Broncos. His stats were terrible but the defense carried the team.
Brees is or will pass him up in stats, and if Brees wins another title, I would put him above Manning for sure. Brady is the clear #1, not sure why anyone would argue that. Maybe Montana #2. After that, it gets harder for more "modern" era quarterbacks.
For the old schools guys, it's clearly Bart Starr. In a league that didn't favor passing, he set records that still stand today. He still holds the highest postseason passer rating. Dude was a winner.
You can't rip Peyton for the AFC South opponents without giving the same criticism to the patsies that Brady has lit up every year.
I don't think anyone would argue that Peyton played better in the playoffs, but his stats are legitimate for his combined career, including the playoffs, and he revolutionized the way that quarterbacks adjust under the center to what they are seeing from the defense.
Romo was a top 10 QB for most of the years when he was in, with a top 3 season here and there. That being said historically he's behind probably Philip Rivers even though his ceiling was higher.
rojo wrote:
rib nerd wrote:
FYI- I'm a Cowboys fan so I don't have a dog in the fight.
What do you mean? Romo.
Rpkp
PS. Joking. I was a huge Romo fan but have no idea how he'd rank. Like was he the 8th best QB in the league when he was in there, 5th? 12th?
Danny Democrat wrote:
Peyton Manning may have the stats but he does not deserve to be in the equation for a top-5.
His record in Indianapolis was inflated by playing two atrocious, expansion-level teams twice a year (I'm talking about the Texans and the Titans). This was an almost guaranteed four wins per year.
Manning's playoff record is actually really terrible. Most years, his teams were one and done. 9 times. His overall completion record, interception percentage, etc, are worse in the playoffs than the regular season. He played worse in big games. Almost every year.
Look at his stat logs from the one season he won a Super Bowl with the Colts. In the playoffs he threw 3TD passes and 7 picks. Yes, 7 picks. In one of those games he went 15-30 with zero tds and 2 picks. Defense bailed him out.
Same scenario the year he won a title with the Broncos. His stats were terrible but the defense carried the team.
Brees is or will pass him up in stats, and if Brees wins another title, I would put him above Manning for sure. Brady is the clear #1, not sure why anyone would argue that. Maybe Montana #2. After that, it gets harder for more "modern" era quarterbacks.
For the old schools guys, it's clearly Bart Starr. In a league that didn't favor passing, he set records that still stand today. He still holds the highest postseason passer rating. Dude was a winner.
Pretty much agree with this and I've been a Bronco fan my whole life. Manning just rarely got it done when it counted. Same can probably be said for Brees. Heck, I'm having a tough time finding a top 10 list that even includes Brees.
Quick google search:
USA Today - no Brees
Bleacher Report - Brees is only honorable mention
Yard Barker - Brees at #8
247wallst - Brees #14
Ranker - Brees #11
ESPN - no Brees
Mile High Report - no Brees
Sports Illustrated - no Brees
Men's Journal - no Brees
I don't think Brees or Brady should be in the top five. Brady has all of the accolades and stats and big comebacks, but I really do not think you can separate his success from the fact that for his whole career he and Belichek have known amlost EVERY defensive play coming there way....they have a system to get this info, they have been fined for it before, and they still know on almost every play....Are they tough to beat because of it? Yes. Is the team longevity and organization and methodology unparalleled in the league? Yes. Does all of that make them the best of all time, knowing they likely cheated more than anyone else year after year? No. It is like saying Lance Armstrong is the GOAT.
Brees, as people have said, put up a lot of junk-time numbers. He is good, his great, he his HOF for sure. He is maybe top ten of all time; the same for Brady....maybes.