USA Triathlon has had great success in recruiting runners with swimming backgrounds and USAT Collegiate Recruitment Program (CRP) Manager, Barb Lindquist, is going to be on this thread to answer your questions and hopefully find its next star on LetsRun.com.
Gwen Jorgensen, the 2016 Olympic champ is the most famous runner to come through the program, but Katie Hursey Zaferes (runner at Syracuse), a 2016 Olympian who is now ranked No. 2 in the world, came from the running world as did first year pro, Morgan Pearson (Colorado) who is already the No. 2 ranked U.S. man on the Olympic Qualification Ranking for Tokyo.
Barb Lindquist made the 2004 Olympic team and is a former world #1 for triathlon. She was an ex-collegiate swimmer from Stanford.
Feel free to ask you questions about the program here or the swimming/running credentials they are looking for. You can find more details on the CRP here:
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Triathlon/Elite/Collegiate-Recruitment/crp-landing-page?utm_source=letsrun&utm_medium=thread&utm_campaign=crpprogram
USA Triathlon is recruiting collegiate runners who can swim and is here to answer your questions (sponsored)
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Thanks for the intro, Weldon! I'm glad to be back on letsrun.com to spread news about the opportunity USA Triathlon has via the Collegiate Recruitment Program to find, assess and support collegiate runners into our sport. It's a unique niche of runners we are looking for-- 16:18 or 4:22.5 for women and 14:00 and 3:46 for men in the 5000m and 1500m-- who also swam in their past. The letsrun.com community is an educated and vocal bunch, so I'd love to answer questions you might have about what it takes to make the transition to triathlon.
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What kind of swimming times would a sub 14 man need to be picked for this program? What are the incentives and why should a college runner choose this over a sub elite running group?
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For a 14:20/3:50 guy and a pretty good swimmer, are there other options for post-collegiate athletes? Like are there other programs that would be a little more lenient on times?
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I can’t swim.
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I ran in college, but slower than those times. My friend is a pro triathlete and I can destroy him in swimming workouts, I can swim with the best triathletes, something I didnt know until I picked up "hobby swimming" after college since I could swim on lunch break at work.
Too bad he absolutely crushes me in running and biking...
It is weird to me that you're recruiting runnings who can swim while runners who can bike seeks like a bigger priority. If you're rolling the dice with one of the three events, why roll the dice with the most important of the three? Get fast runners who are also fast cyclists and then put them with a good swimming coach to learn to be efficient. Some will end up being bad swimmers and no use to usat, but I bet you end up with a higher percentage of success stories than focusing on only runners who can already swim competitively. -
The amount of work it takes to become even halfway proficient at swimming is way above the other two. And if you haven’t even had any formal swim instruction until a young adult you can pretty much forget ever being in the front pack (or even the next two chase packs). Being able to run great and swim well is the sweet spot because anyone can learn to bike well off those two.
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Wolf's Bane wrote:
What kind of swimming times would a sub 14 man need to be picked for this program? What are the incentives and why should a college runner choose this over a sub elite running group?
Thanks for the questions. I'm going to split these into two separate answers. The answer to the swimming times is … it depends! We look at how much the runner has been swimming (hasn't touched water in 5 years of college OR swimming 2 days a week for an hour), video to see if there is glaring low hanging fruit regarding technique (easy fixes can skew potential), what phase of life is the athlete in (still NCAA eligibility or graduated), and then see how light swim training for a month affects swim times. We use a 100/500 swim test to assess potential. This test is a 100 all out, 1 minute rest, 500 all out, both from a push, showing us both natural speed and also endurance/efficiency. An interested athlete can do this fairly quickly in the process depending on how much he is swimming now. It could be somewhat cold turkey with a few weeks of swimming under the belt, or right away if he has been swimming. From there I'll look at swim video to give technique feedback, the athlete receives swimming workouts based on the amount of time he has to swim, and then he retests in a month. So there are lots of variables at the different stages for times. To give you a general idea, I'd split it into:
* first cold turkey test-- 1:04/6:15 males, 1:10/6:40 females. These times would peak my interest, especially if video shows "feel" for the water and fixable inefficiencies.
* 1-2 months training (if still eligibility, this could be longer phase or in the summer. If not within NCAA season, 3-4x1 hr/wk)-- 58/5:45 males, 1:06/6:25 females
* Scholarship entry (to become a funded full-time triathlete)-- 56/5:25 males, 1:03/6:00 females
Keep the swim questions coming! I'll answer the other 2 questions regarding incentive and why an athlete would want to chose this route vs joining a sub elite run squad. -
Wolf's Bane wrote:
What kind of swimming times would a sub 14 man need to be picked for this program? What are the incentives and why should a college runner choose this over a sub elite running group?
Here's the answer to the second part of your questions which really get to the crux of the Collegiate Recruitment Program.
Regarding why this vs. a sub elite running group, it has to do with upside potential on the world stage. I have to presume that a 14' 5k post-NCAA male wanting to join an elite running group still believes he can run faster, but deep in the heart, he must know it would be a stretch to ever make an Olympic Team or be competitive at the highest level of the sport. For a 14' 5k male with a swimming background, the potential to reach both of those in the sport of triathlon is much higher. Not everyone is motivated by making an Olympic Team or courageous enough to step into the unknown of another sport which is much more demanding regarding a time commitment. But for those who do fit this mold, there is a support mechanism in place to transition your talent from single sport to multi-sport.
Morgan Pearson is a great example. He is a 13:36 5k runner from Colorado with a very solid swim background, including open water swimming growing up in NJ. He had a short stint at running elite, but through exposure to triathlon, has realized this is where he can make the biggest impact on the international stage … and make an Olympic Team. He is our first male triathlete to make the National Team in his first year of racing elite. Triathlon has a few different ranking lists, but he is our #2 US male on the Olympic Qualification Ranking and #4 US male on the ITU World ranking, which is a 2 year cumulative points ranking and he only has 1 year of points!
Looping back into the swim times question, once an athlete makes our swim cuts and has the run times we are looking for, the athlete is eligible to receive a CRP Scholarship where USAT provides the athlete with a living, food, coaching and travel stipend so that the athlete can train in a full-time environment with an approved coach. Morgan started on this last year and made the National Team with results from his last races in 2018. The athlete is provided the most expensive of the pieces of gear (bike, race wheels, wetsuit, racing suit, power meter, etc...) The goal at the end of the Scholarship period is to have made our National Team standards and then funding comes through that program.
I'm curious, what does a sub elite 14' runner receive as part of their running squad?
Let me know if you want more details than above! -
southeastrunner wrote:
For a 14:20/3:50 guy and a pretty good swimmer, are there other options for post-collegiate athletes? Like are there other programs that would be a little more lenient on times?
I'd love to hear some times of what a "pretty good swimmer" is. From my 10 experience in this role, it has been rare that I've found a collegiate runner who had the perfect NCAA experience in terms of being injury free and having a running program that has been individually tailored for that athlete. With the size of programs it's a very difficult task, but that's another thread altogether! It would be worth a conversation together to learn about your individual situation (barb.lindquist@usatriathlon.org).
There are other elite squads around the country which could allow someone to work part-time and train triathlon to see potential without being completely all in. I have a few collegiate recruits who have a FT job and are working on their limiter discipline in their home environment with the goal of meeting the CRP standards within this next year, while also earning money. At some point they know in order to become a world class triathlete they will have to make the leap to full-time training, but right now it's enough of a tester to give them (and us) a better idea if they can make it.
Email me! -
Sailerman wrote:
I ran in college, but slower than those times. My friend is a pro triathlete and I can destroy him in swimming workouts, I can swim with the best triathletes, something I didnt know until I picked up "hobby swimming" after college since I could swim on lunch break at work.
Too bad he absolutely crushes me in running and biking...
It is weird to me that you're recruiting runnings who can swim while runners who can bike seeks like a bigger priority. If you're rolling the dice with one of the three events, why roll the dice with the most important of the three? Get fast runners who are also fast cyclists and then put them with a good swimming coach to learn to be efficient. Some will end up being bad swimmers and no use to usat, but I bet you end up with a higher percentage of success stories than focusing on only runners who can already swim competitively.
I bet your pro triathlete friend is a long course (this means 70.3/half Ironman or Ironman) or non-drafting specialist. We are recruiting for the Olympic Team, which is a draft-legal event. The swim becomes important because it gets you "in the game", meaning you have made a good bike pack that will keep you within touch of the lead group. The bike is important to keep you in your pack while saving as much energy as possible for the run. Then the run "wins the game." If an athlete comes out 90"(or even 60" in higher level races) to 3 minute behind the lead group, the bike pack he is in will most likely never gain time on the leaders and the race is over before it starts. Hence, for draft-legal events, it is super important to have a swim "good enough" to let the stellar run be worthwhile.
Swimming is such a higher technique oriented sport than cycling (and I have the highest regards for cyclists, but it's different!) that it's harder to learn the swim as an adult than the bike.
For non-draft events, especially long course, the swim is a prologue to a really long day, and a 90"-3' deficit can be made up quite easily.
Our premise is that if we have an athlete with an engine from the NCAA running or swimming background, we can teach them the bike. There has been only 1 athlete who has really tested this premise with being very lacking skills-wise on the bike to start, and that athlete is currently ranked in the top 30 in the world.
That is crazy you beat the pro friends in the swim and they kick your butt on the run! Have you thought about racing age group triathlon? I bet you'd do well. -
Tritrytri wrote:
The amount of work it takes to become even halfway proficient at swimming is way above the other two. And if you haven’t even had any formal swim instruction until a young adult you can pretty much forget ever being in the front pack (or even the next two chase packs). Being able to run great and swim well is the sweet spot because anyone can learn to bike well off those two.
Well said! I live in a ski town and I always compare swimming to alpine skiing. My twins (11 years old) have grown up skiing. If they didn't touch skis again until they went on a spring break ski trip in college, it would take them about half a day to be back to where they are now. With swimming, if a runner swam summer league when he was 10-13 and if he did a few years of middle school swimming with a good coach, and then didn't really swim in college, some of that feel and awareness of the water would be in him as an adult. Someone smarter than me with science could probably put some reasoning behind this. I just have seen it play out with athletes. Teaching an adult to swim is like teaching an adult to downhill ski-- it can be done, but can take a long time! -
Incentives for sub-elite collegians to train for an Olympic spot.
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Do you sponsor half ironman triathletes? If someone does not meet the times you have given for running in college, would one be able to do a race and then reach out to you with the times for sponsorship? I would love to get involved, but do not have the times you asked for...am training now and hoping to have some fast times next summer...
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Flyyy wrote:
Do you sponsor half ironman triathletes? If someone does not meet the times you have given for running in college, would one be able to do a race and then reach out to you with the times for sponsorship? I would love to get involved, but do not have the times you asked for...am training now and hoping to have some fast times next summer...
First off, welcome to the sport of triathlon! I assume if you are training for a Half that you have already done a sprint or Olympic distance race last summer. I'd love to see links to those results. If that assumption is off and you are jumping right into a Half, well, you need to contact me!
We don't support half IM triathletes because High Performance within USAT is directly related to the Olympic movement, which is the Olympic distance and the 1st ever Olympic event of the Mixed Relay. Better than a race to show us your run would be to do a few of our run tests and send video, though if you are 13.1m focused and we are looking at the shorter run distances, lack of speed may come into play. Reach out if you'd like to discuss the run assessment. -
Rather than waste your time and send an email, as I am pretty sure I probably lack the speed needed in the Olympic distance, can you give a idea of what the run test would be or times for an Olympic tri? Times/Distances?
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Flyyy wrote:
Rather than waste your time and send an email, as I am pretty sure I probably lack the speed needed in the Olympic distance, can you give a idea of what the run test would be or times for an Olympic tri? Times/Distances?
We have a few "proof of run" sets for runners who have met the historical (14') time, as a non-intrusive way to predict current run ability. The times below are based on 14:45 5k fitness and would give you an idea of where your run is now.
-- 1500m Kosmin Assessment (look this up on line for details) = 4x1min effort with 3/2/1min recovery between each. Cover a distance of 1605m for the 4x1' of running.
-- 3000m 1200m/2x1000m/800m with 75/60/60s recovery between each. 400/1km pace of 67.2/2:48.
-- 5000m 4x1600m with 90s recovery between each. 400/1km pace of 70.8/2:57.
Read more about the Mixed Relay in my next post.... -
I've neglected to share about the exciting addition for Triathlon into the Olympics in Tokyo-- the inclusion of the Mixed Relay (300m swim, 6.6km bike and 1km run) as a medal event. This format alternates 2 females and 2 males each doing a triathlon. We have had 3 World Championship (US has medaled in each!), and it obviously weighs more toward the speed/power side of things.
A country cannot add more triathletes to its roster to field a Mixed Relay team. These athletes must also compete in the Olympic distance triathlon. So federations have to either select (via creating Olympic Trials criteria) athletes who they believe can medal at the Olympic distance AND help their team medal in the Mixed Relay, OR if a country does not have a medal potential for the Olympic distance, maybe they just select a Mixed Relay specialist. It will be interesting to watch the other federations of the world to see what they do. The US just finalized our Olympic qualifying criteria.
As you can see, triathlon is very power based sport and the CRP has officially taken the 10,000m time off of our list of events to hit our A Standard. Even though the Olympic distance is a 10k run, a 1500m, steeplechaser, or 5000m runner has more of that explosive nature which transfers to the bike and would also be needed for the Mixed Relay. -
LoneStarXC wrote:
I can’t swim.
Makes me think of
http://www.holdoutsports.com/2016/08/snl-synchronized-swimming-olympics.html -
Hi Barb,
I was thinking about this just a day or two ago.
Of the top 30 men and women in the US, how many specialized in triathlon at an early age?
How many detoured away from triathlon in college for a scholarship in one of the sports (running or swimming---few cycling opportunities out there)?
If you are a top junior US triathlete are you making it toward the top or getting "pushed" out by better runners (or maybe even swimmers)?
