Increasing of the amount of people quiting veganism: (formerly the vegan runner on YouTube has quit veganism)

YMMV wrote:

Lol at the idiotic concepts of human evolution in regard to diet.

lol

Evolution gave us you, a racist turd. So much for evolution.

YMMV wrote:

In Eldoret, wealth is measured in the number of cows you have. Still waiting for the magical vegan Kenyan running superstar. Unfortunately for brain-reduced vegans, Africans are not suckers for this anti-human fad.

Vegan? No. But they get very little animal protein (talking about the Rift Valley) and comes mostly from milk.

yturt wrote:

In Eldoret, wealth is measured in the number of cows you have. Still waiting for the magical vegan Kenyan running superstar. Unfortunately for brain-reduced vegans, Africans are not suckers for this anti-human fad.

Vegan? No. But they get very little animal protein (talking about the Rift Valley) and comes mostly from milk.[/quote]

The Maasai tribe traditional diet is almost entirely meat, blood and milk. Outstanding health, and compared to other tribes in Kenya are taller and more muscular.

It’s interesting to see the correlation between racists and steak eaters. Very startling.

Maasai warriors wrote:

yturt wrote:

In Eldoret, wealth is measured in the number of cows you have. Still waiting for the magical vegan Kenyan running superstar. Unfortunately for brain-reduced vegans, Africans are not suckers for this anti-human fad.

Vegan? No. But they get very little animal protein (talking about the Rift Valley) and comes mostly from milk.

The Maasai tribe traditional diet is almost entirely meat, blood and milk. Outstanding health, and compared to other tribes in Kenya are taller and more muscular.

]

ok. But then there's the rest, the ones that have the best runners (in numbers too), like the Kalenjin.

"Milk provided the lion's share of protein, with 28 percent of daily protein grams (and calories), followed by beans, with a respectable 19-percent share, and rice and ugali were neck-and-neck for third and fourth, with 12 and 11 percent of daily protein, respectively. A smaller surprise? Since the Kenyans relied so heavily on full-cream milk as a source of energy and protein, their daily consumption of saturated fat checked in at about 28 grams -- 252 calories out of the daily caloric quota of 3,000 or so."

rewtwe wrote:

Maasai warriors wrote:

Vegan? No. But they get very little animal protein (talking about the Rift Valley) and comes mostly from milk.

The Maasai tribe traditional diet is almost entirely meat, blood and milk. Outstanding health, and compared to other tribes in Kenya are taller and more muscular.

https://www.wired.com/2012/09/milk-meat-and-blood-how-diet-drives-natural-selection-in-the-maasai/

ok. But then there's the rest, the ones that have the best runners (in numbers too), like the Kalenjin.

"Milk provided the lion's share of protein, with 28 percent of daily protein grams (and calories), followed by beans, with a respectable 19-percent share, and rice and ugali were neck-and-neck for third and fourth, with 12 and 11 percent of daily protein, respectively. A smaller surprise? Since the Kenyans relied so heavily on full-cream milk as a source of energy and protein, their daily consumption of saturated fat checked in at about 28 grams -- 252 calories out of the daily caloric quota of 3,000 or so."[/quote]

And, once they stop running those carbs catch up to them. No disrespect, but have you seen recent pictures of Paul Tergat and Patrick Sang?

I find this discussion interesting.

Some of the articles are very good and others are quite bad. This is like a democrat vs republican debate. Only will someone become further entrenched in their beliefs as they "found some study" that backs exactly what they want to hear.

The argument for protein in forms of grams is incorrect, it should be broken down to the Amino Acids and if its a complete amino acid chain.

For example, Leucine (the amino acid that's responsible for building muscle), is less in plant based protein. It's not one gram per one gram as someone mentioned soy vs beef. Soy also doesn't have a complete amino acid chain, and it converts to estrogen in the body (hence why many men on soy based protein diets have "manboobs").

In addition, plant based protein has 1/3 the leucine of the meat counterparts. So you'd have to eat 90 grams of a complete amino acid chain protein (quinoa or something else plant based) to get the equivalent amount of leucine that 30 grams of beef or chicken have.

In addition, the egg (cooked not raw) the amount of protein that the body absorbs is 97%, it's actually one of the easiest absorbable proteins that exist.

The human body produces digestive enzymes that break down food to digest so our body can absorb it. That said, when someone cuts off meat, there is a probability that the individual's body will no longer produce those enzymes anymore (hence why their guts hurt after eating meat after not eating it for some time).

The best example is those folks who "all of a sudden are gluten intolerant" but they haven't been diagnosed with it. Of course you feel better first, because you're eating less processed foods, but in the long run, by avoiding gluten (assuming you're not gluten intolerant) your body will stop making that enzyme to digest gluten, and it doesn't start again.

If someone wants to go vegan/vegetarian LET THEM, and let them have their babble about how good it is blah blah blah, it's then you'll really start kicking their butt.

You're right it actually is basic science. This not up for "debate" really. It is easy to get enough protein on a plant based diet. We're not worried about protein! Amino acids pool over time and all essential ones can be found in plant sources. In certain countries now (i.e. more areas of poverty) and long ago this might not have been the case...but it is now. You're more likely to get "man boobs" (and ED for that matter) from eating a lot of dairy (think of the hormone spikes...hormones that have been designed by nature for baby cows) and IGF-1 spikes from other animal fats/proteins. Of course not all meat/dairy is created equal. Soy can be an excellent protein source in the form of tofu, tempeh etc. I won't go out of my way to eat a ton of protein soy isolates...but again I'm never worried about getting enough protein. You want to make an argument about B12 or DHA fine....but a simple algae derived oil (where fish create their Omegas from and we can get that straight from the source). Vegans/vegetarians (from a diet point of view only) are going to generally have less of a carbon footprint because of how their food is grown and sourced. Way more environmentally friendly and sustainable. It is not even close (unless you only ate meat you hunted...like deer). As far as the Maasai go...well they don't live very long generally! That can be caused by lots of things though. It probably also helps that they walk/exercise a ton and farm their own crops. A lot of articles have also blown their diet out of proportion (they still do eat vegetables and grains for example and the copious amounts of milk they drink is fermented...which is considered "healthier"). Still there has also been evidence that some were developing heart disease before they even died (which is esp concerning when many only live to be like 45-50).

The science might not be out yet. But with my experience with veganism(vegan for over three years, and yes I did it "right" it was whole foods with almost no junk food ever) and from the interviews ex-vegans have done on the sv3rige YouTube channel(yes I know, "oh YouTube that BS evidence". ). And, how all of these anecdotal experiences are all very similar (I know, you're going say that anecdotal evidence is BS). Me personally, first year or two I felt great eating vegan, however; longer I was vegan the harder it was to satiate my appetite. I use too think about food 24/7. Always bloated and gassy. After a while I grew to snack all day due to hunger. In retrospect, I lost a lot of muscle, not that I was super muscular before I went vegan. Now since switching back to eating primarily animal products my mental state has dramatically improved, no more anxiety and other issues. My hunger is no more, now I am actually eating less total calories compared to when I was vegan. And, I am more satiated with what I eat. My teeth were thinning, now since switching back to animal products my teeth appear stronger and feel stronger.

With all due respect your facts are completely misguided, and I don't want to change what you do if you're a vegan athlete cool go for it, more power to you.

I'm a geneticist and a food science researcher with a significant amount of testing for the past 20+ years.

And I don't want to get into a ego or a my research versus yours, because no matter what facts that I show you, you won't change your opinion, and the studies you find won't change the research I've conducted over thousands and thousands of tests I have conducted with lots of athletes.

The carbon footprint won't matter with all the carbon emitted through various forms of manufacturing and the gasses that our cars and factories emit, lets go count the grains of sand on the beach is essentially what you're talking about there.

The amino acids DO NOT pool, and soy protein is a horrible source of protein. The dairy proteins you mention, they don't synthesize to estrogen in the body like soy does. ANYTHING from soy does, tofu included, plus its not a complete amino acid chain.

Something to keep in mind when responding to Sage is that he was raised veggie/vegan, presumably his family is still v/v, and so is his wife. He has not just swallowed the Kool-Aid, he is swimming in it, and thinks it's air. He will NEVER be open to anything that suggests that his diet is non-optimal, he is entrenched in his dietary Maginot Line. His information is current as of 1982, and just like Bible-thumpers who never question the scriptures, he will never be wrong, period.

In another former-vegan thread a woman mentioned something that immediately took me back to my v/v days: as a high-carb vegan, you always are aware of the location of the nearest bathroom. Skid marks in your underwear are just the complement to all of the methane gas that is exiting your bunghole throughout the day. Vegans decry cow farts but any one of them truly compete with any Holstein out there.

Along with the toilet location, as a v/v you are always thinking about your next snack or meal. Managing your roller-coastering blood sugar is a like being on a metabolc tightrope 24/7, and there is no satiety in the sense that omnivores experience. They are always empty, even with a stomach full of gree and brown mush. It is addiction at it's fullest, and it is not surprising how many v/v's end up being indistinguishable from meth addicts,

This is an eating disorder we are talking about folks, pure and simple. And there are more victims being recruited every day, and thanks to the "plant-powered" media with almost complete societal approval. It is heartening to see some coming to their senses, but many, many will fall deep into the Plant-Powered Rabbit Hole and never return to full health. I still have a mouth full of fillings and crowns installed at great pain and expense. Otherwise I have manage to heal the extensive damage over the last decade or so. If ONE younger runner can avoid this trap due to a thread like this, I will be gratified.

I am looking forward to some Swedish Meatballs, mashed potatoes, and sweet peas my wife is making. It is in the 20s outside, good manly food.

It's kind of ridiculous how you accuse Sage of swallowing the Kool-Aid, basically saying that he's extremely biased, one-sided, and not willing to listen to the other side.

Directly after that you you provide examples that are extremely biased and one sided. They are quite exaggerated as well.

Not a very effective way of doing things. It seems like you are a lot more interested trying to tear him down than have a good debate.

pocketsmaster wrote:

It's kind of ridiculous how you accuse Sage of swallowing the Kool-Aid, basically saying that he's extremely biased, one-sided, and not willing to listen to the other side.

Directly after that you you provide examples that are extremely biased and one sided. They are quite exaggerated as well.

Not a very effective way of doing things. It seems like you are a lot more interested trying to tear him down than have a good debate.

Not sure if you heard him, but YMMV was vegetarian for a decade(if I remember right on the length of time). Until you join the cult for a while and get sick due to it. And, than heal yourself by switching back to animal products. You won't understand where we are coming from. We are trying to prevent people from making the same mistakes we made. I use too think exactly like Sage did, now I realize I was wrong.

Why does anyone care about Sage's opinion?

The guy is clearly trending down and hasn't had any actual good races in recent memory

Clearly, being Vegan is NOT helping his performance any - in fact, you could argue that it's the source of why he's continued to regress each year

I never comment seriously on something I haven't tested thoroughly myself. There are tons of opinions on diet, training and lifestyle out there. Hard-fought experience is harder to come by.

I never use training on my athletes that I haven't tried myself many many times, and am still always experimenting with variables to give the best perspective I can on these issues. Becoming a v/v was one of the few times I let dogma and pseudoscience override my bodies own feedback (I was 15 at the time), and it was my biggest life mistake. Well, maybe except for not having the guts to kiss Candy Lawrence that night on the bridge the summer we were 16 :/

I'm just getting a strong attack vibe from the things you said, which I guess is because of your experience, so that makes sense.

It doesn't matter what someone says, when it's portrayed in that manner I'm less likely to listen. To each their own I suppose.

What has your diet been like after quitting the veg life?

I realized it was a cult when Tim Shieff(a person who I never really heard of before this video) made this video(linked down below). Not necessarily the video made me realize it was a cult(though how he repented like he was a sinner has a cult-ish feel to it), but how all the vegans reacted to him "sinning". Than I realized, wait a minute. He eats eggs and fish. Feels better, than repentance like he sinned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfy54NpXn9c

YMMV wrote:

I still have a mouth full of fillings and crowns installed at great pain and expense.

Aren't you supposed to just spend more time on oral hygiene?

An omnivore may eat candy like Centrowitz, hot dogs, pizza, etc. A vegan diet is not necessarily worse for the teeth.