Increasing of the amount of people quiting veganism: (formerly the vegan runner on YouTube has quit veganism)

why does he look like he's about to be in a beheading video?

Vegetable Police, vegan for a decade. Fixed all of his health ailments with a carnivore diet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_VSov79z8

They are all bailing out (the ones not stupid or insane). Parcour guyTim Schief (might still be insane) Mani The Vegan Climber (smart guy) Rob Stuart, etc, etc.. Most are going carnivore to reverse the damage.

There is entire channel dedicated to former vegan testimonials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4JzgDhCwfc&t=498s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7zV0l4Ii2s

The worst thing is seeing kids being raised on this horrible anti-human diet.

Long term it's not sustainable, it really is a cult.

Former vegan for almost four years wrote:

Long term it's not sustainable, it really is a cult.

Yup.

Many vegans see benefits at first. That's because when they go vegan they're dropping specific processed meats and inflammatory dairy products. The erroneous assumption is that ALL animal products are harmful. Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s... Humans are omnivores. A healthy diet is not restrictive, but features an assortment of healthy natural foods.

What about that Vegan Fit guy that Trahan made fun of? Is he still vegan or is he just “fit”?

Phantasy Star wrote:

Former vegan for almost four years wrote:

Long term it's not sustainable, it really is a cult.

Yup.

Many vegans see benefits at first. That's because when they go vegan they're dropping specific processed meats and inflammatory dairy products. The erroneous assumption is that ALL animal products are harmful. Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s... Humans are omnivores. A healthy diet is not restrictive, but features an assortment of healthy natural foods.

Actually, we are omnivorous carnivores. Our trophic brethren are wolves and dogs, which is why we have a special social bond with those animals. Veganism is a dietary temper tantrum to deny our humanity and purge the "original sin" of depending on animals for food.

Phantasy Star wrote:

Former vegan for almost four years wrote:

Long term it's not sustainable, it really is a cult.

Yup.

Many vegans see benefits at first. That's because when they go vegan they're dropping specific processed meats and inflammatory dairy products. The erroneous assumption is that ALL animal products are harmful. Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s... Humans are omnivores. A healthy diet is not restrictive, but features an assortment of healthy natural foods.

I think dairy depends on the person's ancestry and the origins of the dairy. In addition, how it is eaten. For most people even people who are lactose intolerant can consume yogurt and kefir. This has to do with the fermentation process breaking down certain proteins that maybe problematic.

Phantasy Star wrote:

Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s...

Please describe this mythical vegan diet that is not deficient in calories yet is somehow protein deficient. Something a reasonable adult might eat (i.e. not 2000 calories worth of soda).

If a vegetarian (one who still cosumes fish) is not getting enough of those other nutrients, they aren’t trying very hard.

If a vegan isn’t, they need to try a little harder.

There’s no guarantee a non-vegan diet gets enough iron, B12, or omega 3s either, and it is very likely it doesn’t include enough fiber.

I am not a vegetarian or vegan BTW.

It's impossible to quit veganism, because everyone is vegan while sleeping.

Joe Jackson wrote:

Phantasy Star wrote:

Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s...

Please describe this mythical vegan diet that is not deficient in calories yet is somehow protein deficient. Something a reasonable adult might eat (i.e. not 2000 calories worth of soda).

If a vegetarian (one who still cosumes fish) is not getting enough of those other nutrients, they aren’t trying very hard.

If a vegan isn’t, they need to try a little harder.

There’s no guarantee a non-vegan diet gets enough iron, B12, or omega 3s either, and it is very likely it doesn’t include enough fiber.

I am not a vegetarian or vegan BTW.

1. Plant based proteins are as bioavailable as animal protein.

2. It's hard to get the amount of protien we actually need. Despite vegan claims we only need 5-10% of our daily calories from protein. While yes you can get by on that little amount. It is not optimal.

YMMV wrote:

Phantasy Star wrote:

Yup.

Many vegans see benefits at first. That's because when they go vegan they're dropping specific processed meats and inflammatory dairy products. The erroneous assumption is that ALL animal products are harmful. Eventually their bodies break down due to lack of sufficient nutrients -- B12, iron, protein, omega-3s... Humans are omnivores. A healthy diet is not restrictive, but features an assortment of healthy natural foods.

Actually, we are omnivorous carnivores. Our trophic brethren are wolves and dogs, which is why we have a special social bond with those animals. Veganism is a dietary temper tantrum to deny our humanity and purge the "original sin" of depending on animals for food.

Synthetic Genes cranking out some mighty fine synthetic meat. Vegans gonna keep killing plants or what?

I wonder if this lab grown synthetic meat will turn out like margarine?

⬆Looks good on paper. There are some "Vegan/Vegetarians" who can make it with Endurance (Rich Roll) but he's also a NY times bestseller and his Diet is his business so he has a lot more Greens than just Spinach. For myself and hopefully this helps a lot of LRer's my diet consisted of:

1.) 15-20eggs/week

2.) 24oz bag spinach and/or Kale per week

3.) 1 tub Yogurt/week

4.) Half Cottage cheese tub/week

5.) Loaf Bread 1-1.5 weeks

6.) 5-6 oranges/8-10 Bananas/8-10apples/ week

7.) Stick of Butter every other week

8.) Bowl oatmeal or cereal/ 5/week

9.) Red Meat 1x week 7-8oz.

This is more or less my average diet. I am a Master's Runner avg 50-60/week with an active job lifting/up/down stairs only sitting an average of 2hr/day. I haven't really thought about my bonking or weakness on runs just attributed to the daily grind however looking over my diet with a Nutritionist I wasn't lacking Iron but my system wasn't, the like many Vegans using the Non-Heme Iron. To conclude I started supplementing every other day with a B complex/Iron Glycinate I saw a few gains in Ferritin...But because of the "Water Retention/bloated feeling from Iron I dropped and replaced with 20oz/Beef Liver/week and Whey Protein it was at this point I didn't feel "Flat" and the Ferritin went up over 10+ in 1 month.

So the "Bioavailability of Plant nutrients Vs Animal" is certainly dependent upon one's system. My body (lab and literally) was not responding to non-heme plant iron Or elemental Iron Glycinate. I'm not an anti meat/ or anti plant I'm just Pro-what works. I actually just had a Wheat grass smoothie but later had a Steak...

born and raised vegetarian here...been about 99% vegan the past 4 years (I cheat sometimes and eat baked goods with eggs and try fondue in France etc....I'm not a stickler. It is easy to eat vegan in Boulder though).

At this day and age there really isn't a reason why athletes can thrive on a plant-based diet. Why are we worried about protein again?

Veganism will continue to grow worldwide (the markets in Europe are actually growing quite quickly). Keep in mind a lot of people become vegan for environmental reasons. It generally takes way more resources and land to produce beef/dairy (not to mention the horrible environmental consequences of methane release). When the true cost of beef and dairy is eventually realized and resources become scarce (along with over-population) more people will have to shift to getting more calories from plant sources.

I'd also predict that in 10-20 years time we will see more cases of heart disease, cancers, stroke because of this low carb/keto/high animal protein diet. Casein protein and heme -iron sources (as well as too much protein intake) very likely related to long-term health issues. For sure doing intermittent fasting (essentially starving yourself into ketosis) is great for weight loss short term...but I think the question if you have to ask yourself is this: Is a stick of butter really a healthy thing to be eating?

While yes you can get protien on a vegan diet. One, it is hard to get enough of it. Two, it is not as bioavailable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905294/#!po=1.27119

Out curiosity sage you've never wanted to eat a steak just to see what would happen? Why not just eat some steak, eggs and cheese? Got nothing to lose to. Try to eat some meat for a month. And, would love to hear your feedback. Trying to break the American record in the hundred miles, guess what Zach Bitter eats? I highly recommend his podcast he did on the Joe Rogan podcast. In retrospect, listening to this podcast was the beginning of the end for me, as far as being vegan.

https://youtu.be/RsO61ZsihQM

It’s often alluded to that vegans are insufferable, but why are all threads about veganism started by meat eaters?

Sure, many people unsuccessfully dabble in the plant-based lifestyle and end up returning to eating meat. But think about how many other things people quit at. People quit running, quit the ketogenic diet, quit learning a musical instrument, and generally fail at sustaining most goals.

Yes, plant-based nutrition does require a bit more thinking. If you take the standard American diet and simply remove the meat, you will become even more nutrient-deficient than you already were. So some people quit veganism simply due to lack of proper planning. But the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics has many times explicitly stated that well-planned vegetarian and vegan diets are healthy for people of all ages.

Some genetic factors do predispose some to success or failure on plant-based diets. For instance, conversion of ALA to DHA and EPA long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids differs from person to person and even varies based on gender. So some vegans get plenty of long-chain Omega-3s just from things like chia and flaxseeds, while others end up deficient. Plant protein is generally slightly less bioavailable, but differences are marginal. For instance, protein in foods like nuts, oatmeal, and beans is only 5-15% less available than animal protein, so the simple solution is increase your protein by 5-15%.

If you ever read my horribly written self published book "Running For The Hansons" you'd know I experimented with eating steak/bison burgers for awhile. I mainly did it to see if it would boost my ferritin levels (it did not). My ferritin has been amazing on a vegan diet nowadays though...running more on trails has also seemed to help. But honestly I don't like the "n=1" stories. A n=1 experiment is a horrible experiment. I don't believe we are really all that different genetically...we've evolved from the same common ancestors. Besides maybe getting some extra B12 I don't see any benefit from eating eggs. USDA legally can't say eggs are "healthy" so in ads they simply have to call them "edible and incredible." And I can easily get B12 in other ways. I also don't think eating cheese again is going to be some sort of "magic bullet." Most Americans should probably get their vitamin D checked though as eating dairy and "fortified" milk isn't going to be helping that much. Protein has never been a concern. I mean have you ever heard of someone (especially in the US) that had a health problem because they were "low on protein"? Usually that only happens if someone is anorexic. If you are eating enough calories and eating a somehwat balanced diet you are very very likely getting enough protein. All essential amino acids can be found in plant sources...and can be pooled over time. We could say heme-iron is a more "bioavailable" form of iron compared to non-heme...but the former is also more likely to cause cancer. Zach has run some amazing ultra performances given his marathon PR is still over 2:30 I believe. We haven't raced head to head ever I don't think, but we have run the same courses (Lake Sonoma 50, Western States, etc.) and I have run faster times then him on all those (granted weather conditions and course conditions change from year to year). I am still wanting to go after that 100-mile track record so that will be a goal heading into the future....don't think I forgot about that one! No doubt an 11:40 will be tough to beat. As a runner and coach I always say your specific training influences your running performances first....then maybe things like diet/sleep/mental approach etc. I ran with enough DI guys in college that ate like total crap that would run circles around me. Finally I'm not sure what i'm supposed to be seeing in that link you posted besides some very general info about protein? I did notice it said this written at the end though: "....the potential health concerns associated with a diet of protein consumed primarily from animal sources should be acknowledged. With a proper combination of sources, vegetable proteins may provide similar benefits as protein from animal sources."

Sand Dunes wrote:

While yes you can get protien on a vegan diet. One, it is hard to get enough of it. Two, it is not as bioavailable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905294/#!po=1.27119

Out curiosity sage you've never wanted to eat a steak just to see what would happen? Why not just eat some steak, eggs and cheese? Got nothing to lose to. Try to eat some meat for a month. And, would love to hear your feedback. Trying to break the American record in the hundred miles, guess what Zach Bitter eats? I highly recommend his podcast he did on the Joe Rogan podcast. In retrospect, listening to this podcast was the beginning of the end for me, as far as being vegan.

https://youtu.be/RsO61ZsihQM