Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11/11/2018

Jeremy R wrote:

VAPORFLYS ARE IN STOCK IN NIKE.COM RIGHT NOW.

I'm not getting a pair, but I know you guys want them

Son of a gun, I just bought ski boots! I do not need to spending $1k in a week on footwear :( Wonder what the chances are of more being available prior to Jan 20?

While I wholeheartedly believe that structuring your training cycle via phases adds a lot of value, I also believe that you can get 85-90% of where you want to be without being particularly strategic about when to do what kind of workout, as long as you are running consistently and getting in some workouts of some sort. I think part of that is because most of us probably intuitively adjust our workouts based on where we are in the year, what races are coming up or what our body is subtly telling us is missing.

But if you want to try to capture as much of that remaining 10-15% as possible, I think being thoughtful about when to do which workouts and modulating volume throughout the year are the first steps in doing that.

Working Harder wrote:

Jeremy R wrote:

VAPORFLYS ARE IN STOCK IN NIKE.COM RIGHT NOW.

I'm not getting a pair, but I know you guys want them

Son of a gun, I just bought ski boots! I do not need to spending $1k in a week on footwear :( Wonder what the chances are of more being available prior to Jan 20?

They've been backfilling stock way faster than they used to not only at nike dot com, but also places like Eastbay or even Dick's Sporting Goods. I think I got an email they were back on Nike's site like 3 days ago so if they're still there it sure seems like stock isn't the issue it was with version 1, though not as easy to find as the Pegasus obviously. There's also rumor of a blue one possible available for delivery to stores as early as December possibly?

It's a shame my heel doesn't lock well and slips with that flyknit, though.

Only did a quick scan. Been sick the last few days (yet with so much work to do), so haven’t kept up with this tornadic thread!

OR and RunnerSam - Thanks for the great race reports. Always enjoy a good one.

Bruin - I managed to run on portions of the start and end of the Berlin course, but even just walking around didn’t see much in the way of topography.

Pappy - On tapers I definitely think something is needed to heal up after marathon training, but of course you need something to stay sharp. I like doing something like 4x400 fast with plenty of rest a few days out.

Sub 6:00 - Thanks, and I am looking forward too seeing some race reporting from you...and seeing you run your best.

Lots of snow/ice around here...made running tough today.

Maybe with Keitany destroying everyone in regular Adidas, Nike thinks the hype has died down so it has to sell as much as it can before people figure it out? LOL

Also another vent- why do we need a Flotrack subscription to watch the D1 XC Champs this weekend!?!

I want Grant Fisher (Stanford) and Jessica Hull (Oregon) to win. Jessica is probably a long shot, but .......

Ok, i'm really trying to let this sink in.

Smoove talks about capturing the last 10-15%. As a researcher, if we're talking about a decreasing returns input/output function, that last 10% could be a few seconds(mile) or a few minutes (marathon).

I think about 4 types of runners:

A: Runs hard everyday. does not feel satisfied unless a full effort is given. This is the least effective training

B: Runs easy most days, but is consistent. runs hard and/or long once in awhile. Probably more effective than A

C: Adheres to weekly principles of recovery, workouts, and long runs. Does appropriate training for goal races but has no periodization

D: Like the C runner, but has a longer term vision

I'm a "C" runner most of the time. I don't feel like being a daniels/lydiard/other disciple does much for me.

On the other hand, I train with a guy who is big into peaking. I'll narrowly beat him in short races, until we match up for a peak race, when he absolutely stomps me.

Maybe I don't see the benefit because my cycle "organically" happens.

Good post.. when I started running Jan 2016 I had a 5 year plan in mind.. why I just ran for a year with no workouts.. and the second year ran mileage with some workouts .. the original goal was to be in sub 17 shape in 5 years so A bit ahead of schedule. I like to think of myself as impulsive in short term at times.. but patient about the long term.

I was an "A", then a "B", now just a "C". I now accept that I'll just maximize what I can do based on the time I have. I used to get upset about that, but now, I'm good with it. Not a lot of pressure, running is still fun, and yet you *hopefully* imrpve

Smoove wrote:

While I wholeheartedly believe that structuring your training cycle via phases adds a lot of value, I also believe that you can get 85-90% of where you want to be without being particularly strategic about when to do what kind of workout, as long as you are running consistently and getting in some workouts of some sort. I think part of that is because most of us probably intuitively adjust our workouts based on where we are in the year, what races are coming up or what our body is subtly telling us is missing.

But if you want to try to capture as much of that remaining 10-15% as possible, I think being thoughtful about when to do which workouts and modulating volume throughout the year are the first steps in doing that.

This, obviously, is a real thought provoker.

I genuinely believe, maybe foolishly, that I'm still nowhere close to touching what I could do. Starting at 30 with zero background makes me want to rush things though, even if that's not smart. Instinct is telling me that if I try to average 70 MPW with 1 workout (I or R in Daniels speak), 1 race/Parkrun and 1 long run per week for the entire winter, next summer will be a good one for me.

But to truly try and get to where I think I could possibly be (sub-15), the real structure might have to come into play. Too early to say that a late July 202 track meeting in Wimbledon is my real 5000m goal?!

Bdubs wrote:

On the other hand, I train with a guy who is big into peaking. I'll narrowly beat him in short races, until we match up for a peak race, when he absolutely stomps me.

I think you just answered your own question.

SMOOVE - was just reading the XC previews, and this line stood out to me as a staple SMOOVE workout:

"So when Franklin assigned his runners three sets of 400-mile-400 four days after UNM’s conference meet, he had Kelati run with a male runner, Kurgat with someone on a bike, Charlotte Prouse by herself, Adva Cohen with Hannah Nuttall and Sophie Eckel with Emily Martin."

What rest and paces is that workout again?

That does look like one of the race modeling style workouts I try to do, but for more atudly runners.

I would probably set that up as the 400s being at mile pace and the miles being at goal race pace. Rest would be modest within sets - maybe 2:00 and about full recovery between sets 3:00-4:00. The goal being to simulate the need to get out hard and establish position, settle in tl race pace, then bring it home hard.

Smoove wrote:

But if you want to try to capture as much of that remaining 10-15% as possible, I think being thoughtful about when to do which workouts and modulating volume throughout the year are the first steps in doing that.

Really optimisticly intrigued by what you mean here. In training for this marathon (average 70 and peaking a little over 80 mpw), I’ve thought that this mileage isn’t sustainable for me throughout the year. However I thought that I need to maintain this mileage to see real long term improvement. You’re saying I could see continued improvement by lowering volume in certain times of the year?

All other things being equal, more miles is better. But you can't stay at your peak mileage all year around. And you really shouldn't at the same mileage throughout the cycle.

I view most things in training like waves on a beach during high tide. Each wave breaks and then recedes, but ultimately the tide line moves up the beach over time despite the recession of each individual wave. Just like you have fall back weeks in a phase of a trainingcycle, or recovery days in a week, you have stretches of lower volume at different phases of different cycles and between cycles. But always ultimately marching towards that goal of as many miles as your lifestyle, life demands, desire and health will allow.

Smoove,

On that note, can you talk a bit about how you structured RF's "recovery" from Gasparilla to the Ottawa training cycle? Was it just a week of easy runs? More than that w/ days off?

After Gasparilla I took 4 or 5 days completely off. Then ran easy for a week and jumped into workouts right after. The timing for everything from the start of the Gasparilla cycle up until Ottawa was as good as it gets.

Jeremy: Yeah, I’ll have the newer version of what Desi wore. She wore the ‘Prototype 2’ and I’ll have the 3. They’ll eventually be called the ‘Hyperion Elite’. I tried the 2’s and they’re ok. The Vaporfly was better in my opinion.

Quick drive by as I'll be on vacation in New Orleans and not posting tomorrow.

High 40's for me this week. Had a two 6 milers that should have been 10s and didn't get to the gym. Oh well. Not sure how much running I'll get in next week.

Beautiful dusting of snow in Madison today. Should be wonderful XC weather.