sky wrote:
Viren has consistently denied blood doping, if I'm not mistaken. Even turned down a million bucks from a German magazine to say otherwise.
The "reindeer milk" thing was simply a joke aimed at dumbarse reporters.
Which other dumbarse types have misinterpreted throughout the years.
He was a true great, imo.
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
Armstronglivs wrote:
The Tax Man wrote:
As Rod Dixon would say, "Yes."
By the way Viren was advised by...wait for it... >>>A.Lydiard
He wasn't coached by Lydiard. Vasala was.
Watch the video. Also, advised is not the same thing as being coached by someone. For example, Wilson Kipsang is advised by Canova and is given his two cents. But, Canova does not directly coach Wilson Kipsang.
Watch the video wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
He wasn't coached by Lydiard. Vasala was.
Watch the video. Also, advised is not the same thing as being coached by someone. For example, Wilson Kipsang is advised by Canova and is given his two cents. But, Canova does not directly coach Wilson Kipsang.
So your point is?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
He would say that, and he did.
sky wrote:
Viren has consistently denied blood doping, if I'm not mistaken. Even turned down a million bucks from a German magazine to say otherwise.
The "reindeer milk" thing was simply a joke aimed at dumbarse reporters.
Which other dumbarse types have misinterpreted throughout the years.
He was a true great, imo.
Turned down a million smackers? Well then, he's definitely clean or incredibly stupid.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
The rules of WADA state that they can retrospectively ban people, they won't go after Viren though.
You can't be retrospectively penalised unless the substance was banned at the time of performance.
No actually you can now, they've put in a clause like "if you use a steroid, androgen, Sarm, peptide or insulin growth factor that we don't know about at present, it doesn't make them legal and we'll retrospectively test your samples and take action." The classic example is meldonium with East European athletes or some of the gases.
Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:
sky wrote:
Viren has consistently denied blood doping, if I'm not mistaken. Even turned down a million bucks from a German magazine to say otherwise.
The "reindeer milk" thing was simply a joke aimed at dumbarse reporters.
Which other dumbarse types have misinterpreted throughout the years.
He was a true great, imo.
Turned down a million smackers? Well then, he's definitely clean or incredibly stupid.
Wasn't there talk of $1 million to get Paula to do a polygraph? Maybe cheats prefer the glory to the money after all, how noble of them.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:
Turned down a million smackers? Well then, he's definitely clean or incredibly stupid.
Wasn't there talk of $1 million to get Paula to do a polygraph? Maybe cheats prefer the glory to the money after all, how noble of them.
What? Someone actually offered Paula a million smackers to take a polygraph? That sounds like something that would be done on one of those primetime reality shows. I could see the promos: Tune in next week where Paula takes a polygraph...live and in HD. ?
Yes.` wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?
He would say that, and he did.
You grasp the obvious then, that it proves nothing. Did Lance admit to doping before he was nailed by the USADA?
Subway Surfers wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You can't be retrospectively penalised unless the substance was banned at the time of performance.
No actually you can now, they've put in a clause like "if you use a steroid, androgen, Sarm, peptide or insulin growth factor that we don't know about at present, it doesn't make them legal and we'll retrospectively test your samples and take action." The classic example is meldonium with East European athletes or some of the gases.
I recall that Sharapova got busted for meldonium, but that was because it was placed on the banned list and she continued to use it. I don't think she could have been retrospectively penalised for using it before it was banned. It would go against principles of natural justice. You can't be retrospectively made an offender by back-dating the law.
Accusations about blood doping were surfacing by the late 60's but it took Viren for it to become a source of public speculation. At the '76 Olympics commentators were openly talking about it and reporters were asking questions. When it has reached that point the game is pretty much up. Viren's "reindeer milk" response is on a par with Ma's "caterpillar juice" for doped Chinese performers in the 90's.
Viren toured my country in '77. He was pathetic. He couldn't beat nationally-ranked runners let alone international performers. It was hard to believe he was a multiple Olympic champion. Sure, he blood-doped.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You can't be retrospectively penalised unless the substance was banned at the time of performance.
No actually you can now, they've put in a clause like "if you use a steroid, androgen, Sarm, peptide or insulin growth factor that we don't know about at present, it doesn't make them legal and we'll retrospectively test your samples and take action." The classic example is meldonium with East European athletes or some of the gases.
I see you have identified substances that are already on the banned list, though they may occur in a disguised form. Meldonium wasn't one of those drugs. It was a heart medication, permitted to be used until the end of 2015 (I think), when its use was then proscribed (in tennis) because of its effects as a stimulant.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Accusations about blood doping were surfacing by the late 60's but it took Viren for it to become a source of public speculation. At the '76 Olympics commentators were openly talking about it and reporters were asking questions. When it has reached that point the game is pretty much up. Viren's "reindeer milk" response is on a par with Ma's "caterpillar juice" for doped Chinese performers in the 90's.
Viren toured my country in '77. He was pathetic. He couldn't beat nationally-ranked runners let alone international performers. It was hard to believe he was a multiple Olympic champion. Sure, he blood-doped.
So why did he not blood dope for the tour or when Brendan Foster beat him in Europeans at least?
Speaking of Brendan Foster, he believed there was NOTHING to the blood doping rumors about Viren. Said so in his book.
Viren and his coach Rolf Haikkola were masters as peaking for the big events. Rod Dixon has acknowledged the hard, specific training Viren did,
And if you research Viren's record, he had more wins and strong performances in non-Olympic events than popularly believed. (but he did gear everything towards the Olympics)
@Armstronglivs,
What country are you from?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Did Lance admit to doping before he was nailed by the USADA?
Lance did confess his PED use to many people, and his implicit and explicit confessions to Steve Swart, Emma O'Reilly, Greg LeMond and to Indiana doctors were part of the public record even before the USADA case.
This is not the case with Viren.
Raindearmilk wrote:
Magnificent blood transfusions. Lopes gold, Pre bronze.
Are you saying that a clean Virén, with his perfect form and perfect running body, couldn´t beat the short legged, stocky Pre?
Aragon wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Did Lance admit to doping before he was nailed by the USADA?
Lance did confess his PED use to many people, and his implicit and explicit confessions to Steve Swart, Emma O'Reilly, Greg LeMond and to Indiana doctors were part of the public record even before the USADA case.
This is not the case with Viren.
Lance made no public admissions of doping and sued or threatened to sue those who claimed he did. Why would dopers admit to it? It says nothing that Viren publicly denied it.
Armstronglivs wrote:
The Tax Man wrote:
As Rod Dixon would say, "Yes."
By the way Viren was advised by...wait for it... >>>A.Lydiard
He wasn't coached by Lydiard. Vasala was.
Viren's coach was Rolf Haikkola (which I almost certainly misspelled.) Lydiard had been hired as Finland's national coach. He was there to advise coaches rather than to coach specific athletes, i.e., he taught the coaches his methods and they adapted what he'd taught them in their own ways. You can see a load of Lydiard's stuff in samples of Viren's training but it does not look like what you find in samples shown in Lydiard's books.
Aragon wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Did Lance admit to doping before he was nailed by the USADA?
Lance did confess his PED use to many people, and his implicit and explicit confessions to Steve Swart, Emma O'Reilly, Greg LeMond and to Indiana doctors were part of the public record even before the USADA case.
This is not the case with Viren.
Hey Aragon...since you're in Finland and have done extensive research with blood doping in the 70s & 80s - what do you think was going on with Viren, and the blood doping suspected of some of the Finns back in that time period?