Election Day Thoughts: Do you have good friends with vastly different political views from yours?

vivalarepublica wrote:

Yes. I think the US election system is broken and will continue to be broken until we move away from two party politics and plurality voting, but pretty much nobody knows what I'm talking about and it doesn't make for good conversation.

What, and be like France and other euros? That’s not working at all for them. Disaster.

John Utah wrote:

No.

But that’s an issue of correlation, not direct causation. For example, politics aside, I’m likely not going to find much in common with your run of the mill Antifa protestor who is out throwing rocks in the street and screaming at old ladies.

This is a problem I've pointed out before. Where people choose the worst example of a group, and then apply it to the whole group. John Utah thinks all libs are Antifa protesters that throw rocks and scream at old ladies. When in fact, Antifa protestors are probably less than 1% of the liberal population. And violent Antifa protestors are probably less than 1% of Antifa protestors. So, you single out the 0.01% worst example of liberals, and use it as an excuse of why you can't be friends with any liberal. You have pretty poor reasoning skills. And for that reason, not because of your political views, we couldn't be good friends.

Here's an election day thought: Democrat loses to a dead guy in Nevada. The best thing about voting for a dead guy is you know they won't flip flop after the election.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Yes. I think the US election system is broken and will continue to be broken until we move away from two party politics and plurality voting, but pretty much nobody knows what I'm talking about and it doesn't make for good conversation.

If you listen to podcasts, check out Freakonomics. They just did a great piece on the Duopoly of US Politics... which basically makes the case that the current system isn't broken - that it is doing exactly what it is designed to do - benefit the heads of the political parties by keeping out outside voices.

theJeff wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

Yes. I think the US election system is broken and will continue to be broken until we move away from two party politics and plurality voting, but pretty much nobody knows what I'm talking about and it doesn't make for good conversation.

If you listen to podcasts, check out Freakonomics. They just did a great piece on the Duopoly of US Politics... which basically makes the case that the current system isn't broken - that it is doing exactly what it is designed to do - benefit the heads of the political parties by keeping out outside voices.

(which is to say, yes, it is very much broken)

Used to be able to have great conversations with my liberal friends. Now, not so much. It quickly goes from civil to "homophobic, racists, xenophobic, etc." Not worth discussing.

Huh?

I have plenty of lefty friends but discuss politics with very few of them. I know which ones cannot discuss the subject without getting emotional - those are still friends but politics are off limits.

theJeff wrote:

theJeff wrote:

If you listen to podcasts, check out Freakonomics. They just did a great piece on the Duopoly of US Politics... which basically makes the case that the current system isn't broken - that it is doing exactly what it is designed to do - benefit the heads of the political parties by keeping out outside voices.

(which is to say, yes, it is very much broken)

Not really a podcast guy, but I became very familiar with the intentional design of the two-party power structure even during the first election cycle in which I was able to vote (2008). If I introduce this idea and similar topics, it just doesn't generate much conversation.

What's not working? How? Why is it a disaster?

Much of Europe has settled, constructive, effective coalition governments. Sure, there can be problems with coalitions, like Merkel is seeing, but show me a democracy that doesn't occasionally have some problems

John Utah wrote:

What, and be like France and other euros? That’s not working at all for them. Disaster.

What's not working? How? Why is it a disaster?

Much of Europe has settled, constructive, effective coalition governments. Sure, there can be problems with coalitions, like Merkel is seeing, but show me a democracy that doesn't occasionally have some problems

Democrats lose again

John Utah wrote:

will run for beer wrote:

Nothing wrong with differing opinions. My husband occupies the end of the political spectrum almost opposite of mine. We’re both the ultimate “debater” type. We do discuss politics, but usually it leads to broader conversations about history, sociology, anthropology, etc. till we’re a couple of pots of coffee deep into a Sunday morning. It’s been fun for years now.

Interestingly, my spousal and maternal units are exactly on the same political page. Their “mutual appreciation fests” on election day run out of fuel pretty quickly.

You guys seem to have a lot in common. You both appear to be weirdos.

Is this a random ad hominem or just a shining example of a lack of reading comprehension skills? Or, wait, I’ve got it: you’re the guy who starts threads puzzling over why anyone would get educated or men and women become friends, etc.

Yes, most of my friends are liberal NPCs, that's unavoidable here

Yes.

I'm a married openly gay man who also happens to be a colored non-national. A democrat and a treehugger.

My best friend is red (McCain/Romney/Trump), Catholic, against gay marriage, gay but in the closet, fully against illegal immigration, and not shy to voice out his opinions especially if alcohol is involved. Somehow our friendship makes it through this ocean between our ideologies. It's a good friendship, I'll tell you we never run out of topics of conversation, because we don't agree about much.

Yes, though few of them do I discuss politics with regardless of political alignment. The only ones I do have discussions with are those that are at least able to think critically and not just blindly parrot talking points from chain emails or late night comedians. If you are just going to angrily yell at me that George Soros is manipulating voting machines or Donald Trump is being controlled by Putin, I'm not having that conversation.

Assuming they are not trolls, I'm struck by those posters that say they can't discuss politics with or are confused by friends being distance while equating voting Republican with putting Jews in ovens to be burned alive. Hmmm, wonder why the communication broke down...

I would contend that the election of Trump was more a symptom of political breakdown than the cause.

Yes, I do. And last night I told him, "Trump's agenda is DOA! Two years of gridlock and investigations coming, so suck that you racist ignoramus!"

Not sure why we never hang out anymore.

Here is some background from a German family that was split apart by the rise of ultra nationalists. My father immigrated from Germany in '38, first to Great Britain and then to the US just before the US entered the war. I was born in '47. Our family was not Jewish but my father said they had many Jewish friends and were never in favor of the NSDAP (Nazis). My father's family were all Social or Christian Democrats who watched with horror as Nazis suddenly gained massive support in the early 30s. My father left to study at Oxford and had no desire to return to Germany because of the regime. HeHis father (my grandfather) was a Great War veteran who stayed in the Germany and continued to hate the Nazis. He barely survived the war. My grandmother died during the Russian invasion of East Prussia. My father got to speak with his dad only once when the war was over. He was in shock and suffering from typhus and died shortly thereafter. My dad asked him if he thought anything could have been done to stop Hitler early on. My grandfather told him he wished he had died stopping the Nazis and that people like him had tried harder to shame those who quickly became supporters of Hitler. That is *my* template now. If you support Trump -- you get nothing but shame from me. This is no time for olive branches. Trump is not exactly Hitler but he is a branch from the same tree. If you support him you are my enemy. Period. I had friends who supported Bush. About half of them voted for Obama and Clinton. I have *no* friends who voted for Trump.

2/10