What happened to barefoot, minimalist, Vibram as the cure for everything that ails the runner?

theJeff wrote:

Variation is key.

Doing 100% of runs barefoot isn't smart for most of the population (our ancestors didn't run on asphalt)

Doing 100% of runs in ultra padded shoes can let you develop some bad habits (and apparently, you land with an even harder foot-strike with cushioned shoes)

Long run on asphalt / dirt / gravel

Strides on grass

Intervals on hills / tracks

Just some healthy examples

This right here. Barefoot is normal and natural and the way it's "supposed" to be. But our ancestors didn't run on asphalt or crete. That's reality.

John Utah wrote:

I love the idea of minimalist running (not Vibrams though....way too dorky). Is there anything better than running barefoot on nice turf?

However, it's tough unless you've already spend a lot of your life barefoot. It takes WAAAAY longer than expected to build up muscles, tendons, bone density, etc. than most might think. That's been my experience. Recipe for injury for normal americans running on 'crete.

What I really need is a 5k loop of manicured grass to run on.

While I hate to agree with John, I think he is correct here. Spending most of my life barefoot or in paper thin sandals I had 0 problem moving into the 'barefoot' shoes (not the idiot toe shoes). They protect my feet from glass/nails/other nasties outside.

Saucony has had the Kilkenny on the market forever and I do well in those. I probably shouldn't even mention this for fear it will jinx everything and they'll discontinue it. You can also get the Asics Sortie Magic on a Japanese website now and again. I did not know there was going to be a Born to Run movie. Here's hoping.

John Utah wrote:

JoeRoganSuperFan wrote:

TOO MUCH SOY MILK DESTROYED OUR BONES

MUSAGA

www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/mar/fracturesopti.jpg

facts say the opposite

Learn how to read a graph, bro. According to that graph people in the US eat way more protein than people in the UK and people in the US have less, not more, hip fractures.

you poor thing

Racket wrote:

A class action lawsuit was brought against them for false claims so that's what happened to them.

And it made no difference since they make the soles for many of the other companies too.

One of the best instructional running vids out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIDRHUWlVo

Lenny_ wrote:

another runner wrote:

Look up Mark Cucuzzella. He has run a sub 3 hour marathon for 33 straight years. Does 70% of his running barefoot and the rest of his mileage is in minimalist shoes or sandals.

he was a 2:24 marathoner, now he's just jogging sub 3 hour marathon

Not a cure-all of course, but I transitioned to minimalist running about three years ago after a series of injuries and at the recommendation of my PT (with whom I spent substantial time "gait-retraining" etc.) and that has been the most productive stretch of training I've had since college (in my mid/late 30s and post-collegiate PRs in everything from 1 mi to marathon). I run in very minimalist Merrells for regular road and trail runs (they are one of the brands still making a good line of this type of shoes), and then in Altras for long runs. This has worked well for me, so I'm still a believer.

I stocked up on the Carrera a few years ago, and it looks like they are still available on closeout. Really nice and protective and durable for a super light shoe.

Big honking trainer wearer wrote:

Was it just a marketing fad? There were once so many testimonial threads about how the above strategies cured a history of chronic injuries, made runners faster at all distances, turned geeks into chick magnets and cured halitosis.

Are there still runners out there whose 'barefoot' running remedied a history of chronic injuries, especially hamstring problems?

Recommendations from your success?

90%+ of the miles I've run since the summer of 2001 have been in minimalist shoes (flats). I don't pretend to extrapolate my personal anecdote into a belief that it's what is best for everyone. But, you don't seem to be wanting an actual conversation but just to poke at a training approach that you think is/was a fad.

Agreed on the Kilkenny xc flats - good stuff.

I think it's mostly because, as with any trend, people became fanatical about it. If you've never run barefoot/minimal then jumping right into it is obviously going to lead to injury. I also think people misunderstood what mid/forefoot strike means. I saw so many people running around on their toes in vibrams. There is a lot of benefit to barefoot running and there's really no reason not to incorporate barefoot strides into your training, but you'd really have to build up over time to do all your running that way. Now the trend is stiff, ultra-cushioned, severe-drop shoes (thanks Nike). We'll have to wait to see what injuries come from this.

There were many problems with this fad because it was treated as just that. If you want to run in minimalist shoes then you must take time to transition and this is not a fast process for most people. It took me over a year to transition from 10mm shoes to zero drop minimalist shoes. I now train 90% in minimalist shoes but I also run on grass/dirt trails. I do not think that running in minimalist shoes on the road is a good idea either. Humans were mechanically made to run on dirt barefoot but not on concrete, which is much firmer. If you change the surface, then you need to change the shoe that you wear on said surface. Hence we have more cushioned shoes for road runners. If I road on the road I'll use a more cushioned shoe (Altra Escalante Racer) and if I run on my natural surfaces then I wear the Merrell Trail Gloves. I highly recommend minimalist running to people but make sure to stress, as much as I can, that it takes a lot of patience and should be approached conservatively.

dddumb wrote:

John Utah wrote:

www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/mar/fracturesopti.jpg

facts say the opposite

Learn how to read a graph, bro. According to that graph people in the US eat way more protein than people in the UK and people in the US have less, not more, hip fractures.

FACTS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS

MUSAGA

There's been a positive effect on the variety of running shoes available. It used to be all trainers had 12 mm offset heels. Now 10 mm is considered high, and runners have a choice of a lot of trainers between 0 mm and 8 mm. People have different preferences, so the increase in choice of heel offsets is good.

There is also now more choices for runners with wide feet.

george oscar bluth wrote:

Big honking trainer wearer wrote:

Was it just a marketing fad? There were once so many testimonial threads about how the above strategies cured a history of chronic injuries, made runners faster at all distances, turned geeks into chick magnets and cured halitosis.

Are there still runners out there whose 'barefoot' running remedied a history of chronic injuries, especially hamstring problems?

Recommendations from your success?

90%+ of the miles I've run since the summer of 2001 have been in minimalist shoes (flats). I don't pretend to extrapolate my personal anecdote into a belief that it's what is best for everyone. But, you don't seem to be wanting an actual conversation but just to poke at a training approach that you think is/was a fad.

My question about hamstring problems should have clued you into the fact that I am looking for help with an injury and not poking fun at the strategy but I am now poking fun at your reading comprehension.

zzzz wrote:

There's been a positive effect on the variety of running shoes available. It used to be all trainers had 12 mm offset heels. Now 10 mm is considered high, and runners have a choice of a lot of trainers between 0 mm and 8 mm. People have different preferences, so the increase in choice of heel offsets is good.

There is also now more choices for runners with wide feet.

The shoes now are clearly lighter overall than 10-15 years ago. A medium weight trainer used to be around 11 oz(size 9) and those shoes are now around 10 oz. At what weight is a shoe today considered to be minimalist?

If Vibram had created a World track series of Minimalist Running (say one meet a month, somewhere in the World) and rewarded Toe Shoes World Records on all distances from 100 meters to Marathon with big prize money, then toeshoes would still have been a big thing. Instead they went haywire with crazy gimmick versions of the VFFs as if their marketing departmen themselves believed they were only a fad. Then of course came the lawsuit too on top when the fad started fading. They had the product and the moment, but not the necessary full business savvy.

Five is the magic number wrote:

If Vibram had created a World track series of Minimalist Running (say one meet a month, somewhere in the World) and rewarded Toe Shoes World Records on all distances from 100 meters to Marathon with big prize money, then toeshoes would still have been a big thing. Instead they went haywire with crazy gimmick versions of the VFFs as if their marketing departmen themselves believed they were only a fad. Then of course came the lawsuit too on top when the fad started fading. They had the product and the moment, but not the necessary full business savvy.

Lawsuit?