When did men start hugging men?

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

If the topic does not concern or bother you, why would you post about it at all? Then you go on to assume that the concerning act was started by "black people."

Are you never just curious? I explained the black dude comment, and I wasn't assuming anything. I asked a question. Good grief. Barking up the wrong tree trying to assign racist or sexist tags to me. I am so socially liberal I make Nancy Pelosi look like Newt Gingrich.

teenage wasteland the fake one wrote:

Flagpole: what you should say at this point is this. "I apologise for my post. I didn't realize at the time how offensive it was."

Instead, your backpedaling is only digging the hole even deeper.

I have requested that you be banned.

Yeah...I saw your request. No beckpeddaling from me. You are mistaken in its meaning if you believe my post is offensive.

It is as offensive as if I were just to say to you that your comment to me is offensive.

It just simply isn't.

Flagpole wrote:

I'm one of the most socially liberal people here, but just as a general societal question here in the US...

,,,when did all this hugging to greet each other start?

Johnny Carson used to greet male guests with a handshake, and any hugging of a male was done for comedic effect.

Jimmy Fallon practically puts on the clothes of his male guests, he hugs them so much...but it's not just him...it's seemingly everyone.

So, what started this? Black dudes doing it first and the rest followed because they set the "cool" culture here in the US?

I honestly have no idea and am looking for answers.

10/10. Aspiring trolls, take note, this is how it's done.

Seriously, Flagpole, no one, and I mean no one, can piss people off like you can. It's a shame your trolling is confined to a relatively obscure message board. You should take your act on the road.

Flagpole wrote:

teenage wasteland the fake one wrote:

Flagpole: what you should say at this point is this. "I apologise for my post. I didn't realize at the time how offensive it was."

Instead, your backpedaling is only digging the hole even deeper.

I have requested that you be banned.

Yeah...I saw your request. No beckpeddaling from me. You are mistaken in its meaning if you believe my post is offensive.

It is as offensive as if I were just to say to you that your comment to me is offensive.

It just simply isn't.

I have seen you post for years and have come up with one conclusion. You have no idea how you come off to other people. You think you are this awesome person and try to show everyone how great your life is and how wonderful you are. You are absolutely clueless.

When everyone hates you and disagrees with what you are saying, chances are its not all the other people who have the issues. Just some food for thought.

No you're racist wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

If the topic does not concern or bother you, why would you post about it at all? Then you go on to assume that the concerning act was started by "black people."

No you're racist for assuming it wasn't black people who did this first. White people trying to take credit for everything. SMH

We are a melting pot culture (which I LOVE by the way). It is not uncommon for style to originate in a certain segment of our society and then move to the population as a whole. We can look to movies, music, television for any of that.

Flagpole wrote:

Gravy wrote:

January 20, 1993. Shocked that you don't know this.

Ah...well done.

I always thought that it was the 19th.

Confuzzled wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Yeah...I saw your request. No beckpeddaling from me. You are mistaken in its meaning if you believe my post is offensive.

It is as offensive as if I were just to say to you that your comment to me is offensive.

It just simply isn't.

I have seen you post for years and have come up with one conclusion. You have no idea how you come off to other people. You think you are this awesome person and try to show everyone how great your life is and how wonderful you are. You are absolutely clueless.

When everyone hates you and disagrees with what you are saying, chances are its not all the other people who have the issues. Just some food for thought.

Weird thing to say to a guy who was asking for information from people here.

But hey, if you are someone who hates other people, then I feel sorry for you. I don't hate anyone...too much energy is spent hating people. I learned that a long time ago. Maybe you should look into that.

Dude, you don't even KNOW how much I could troll if I really wanted to. SO easy to do that with the posters at Letsrun. The fact is that I KNEW some people would not answer seriously and that some would not comprehend what I am saying, but I really am curious about it all.

When I was in high school, Run DMC came out with their awesome cover of Aerosmith's Walk This Way, and guess what happened shortly after that? All the white dudes in my school (well, not me because I had my own style, and I don't change for anyone) started wearing chains and hats and white Addidas shoes.

Flagpole wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

You managed to fit sexism and racism into one post.

It is neither of those things.

How is asking when men started to hug each other sexist? It isn't. It is a thing that has become a norm in our society that was not one back in the 70s. Perhaps not as noticeable to you since you are not old enough.

And racist? You have got to be kidding. I wasn't saying that I thought that about black dudes. I was giving an answer as an example that perhaps someone was going to say. I might disagree with that if someone said it even.

You don't know anyone more liberal than me. No sexism here or racism ever.

Liberals and leftists are the biggest racists and race-baiters of all.

It has happened since we were still glorified Chimps. You actually think this is a new thing?

Pretty sure you can find references to embracing in The Bible and the works of Homer etc.

Watch any old Olympic clip. Hugs all around practically.

It's a good question, Flagpole, and deserves a thoughtful answer. Of course the LR forum is the perfect place for that.

I think it comes from two different places. One is the men's movement in the period dominated by Robert Bly's IRON JOHN and by Sam Keen. Iron John came out in 1990. Men's movement men believed in manly hugs--a masculine alternative to a range of masculinities that they disliked, including 50's "Mad Men" handshakes, the 70's androgynous ideal, and the 80's Yuppie reversion to handshakes and fist-bumps.

But I also distinctly remember that hip-hop guys in the early 90s were into masculine hugs, too.

Worth further study. But my guess is that you'll find the men-hugging thing coalescing as a thing between 1989 and 1994. You heard it here first.

Curious, I just googled "when did men start hugging" and came across the following.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/how-touching-the-evolution-of-the-man-hug-1.3121006

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3768751

The following story pegs it to Bill Clinton (1992-2000):

https://www.nationalreview.com/2011/06/hug-history-katherine-connell/

Declining homophobia?

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/28/fashion/the-bro-hug-embracing-a-change-in-custom.html

Hugging, kissing, and....sack-whacking? Yes, they're serious:

https://melmagazine.com/hugging-kissing-and-sack-whacking-the-ways-in-which-straight-platonic-male-friends-touch-each-991f6b84ddbe

And no, Flagpole, your initial post wasn't racist. I've called this forum out many times for such things, but your surmise wasn't way off base. I remember being surprised by the hip hop hugging thing when it happened. It made regular old handshakes seem so old fashioned. And it made white guys who did the slap-me-five thing, which was a straight-up copy of black guys, seem SO old-fashioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItVPwTN5cEo

Kay and Peele skewer the black/white hug/handshake divide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nopWOC4SRm4

I majored in racism and sexism in cawlej. My professors were racism and sexism (and other ism) scholars. What they did in their original research was list notable historical and current public figures and explain why they were raysis and sexis. Some of these leading scholars of isms talked about binaries and normativity. They must have been computer science and math experts using words like that. What I learned is raysism, sexism and other isms are everywhere. I did not use an Oxford comma just now because it is raysis and my professor wrote a book and many research papers on why that is. If you see something, look at it through the ism lens, and you're a step closer to being a scholar. We need more original scholarship like this, so it's good that tuition prices are going up to fund major ism departments across universities.

Here's another good one suggesting homophobia was behind the period of no-hugging. Before the 20th century, homosexuality was considered conduct rather than an identity, so people weren't concerned with seeming gay.

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection/

The current male hugging trend is really more of a tough guy thing. Every time I have had to endure a male hug, it has been from a guy who is pretty jacked. It isn't really a "hug" the way you give your kids a hug. It is more like "hey, check out how I can wrap you up in my jacked up arms and give my delts a good slap so you know that I am bigger than you are."

Please bring back the old Flagpole.

This one just for you Flagpole:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qeua7PPg9v4

Up next, kissing.

As in Judas and Jesus. We've all had friends who stabbed us in the backs, right?

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

You managed to fit sexism and racism into one post.

Ha! Just brilliant. You lampooned "one of the most socially liberal people here" on his own territory.