parents who send their kids to "out of state" public universities

Yes, the Ivies are known for their grade inflation. What is less known is, first, that their level of performance is still far higher than at most large public institutions, and, second, that the other institutions do a great deal of grade inflation as well, probably more. The average performance at average schools is far lower, though the grades on average are indeed higher by about .2 grade points at private than public 4 year colleges. The A's have climbed from 15% to 45%. You can talk about snowflakes attending Ivies, but they are in general incredibly accomplished, with the exception of some of the legacies and foundation case$.https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/grade-inflation-continues-us-colleges

Ivies Inflate wrote:

Your last sentence is not true. The most selective schools are known to inflate grades. The Ivies have graduation rates of 98%. They obviously do more screening up front during admissions but every snowflake attending wouldn't be assisted to earn their A if they attended a regular public university.

Raysism wrote:

Mich Grad wrote:

Sorry to say but you are WRONG. UCLA is a better school then Michigan. UCLA provides better opportunities in a place worth living. Michigan is great but definately behind UCLA and UVA. Probably the 4the best public.

Both fine schools, but the SAT scores of incoming Michigan are materially better than those of incoming UCLA students. I'm fairly involved in the workings of one of the top public schools in the country, and all of our consultants tell us that Michigan is the gold standard of public schools (e.g., 50% out of state students, SAT scores, etc.). It's impressive. They're miles ahead of UVA, which is shocking to see because I always figured UVA was the top dog outside California.

Michigan sucks as a place to live compared to LA, but very few of these kids are staying in Michigan.

Mich takes more OOS students and offers them incentives to go (i.e. heavy scholarship $$$). UCLA is costing $65k/year for OOS students and doesn't offer any OOS need based aid. UCLA also tends to prioritize UC-weighted GPAs over SAT scores when selecting students (per the last few years of stats, it looks like a kid with a 4.4 UC GPA/1350 SAT generally has better odds than a kid with a 3.8 UC GPA/1500 SAT). I'd imagine this is due to their commitment to take students from a wide range of CA school districts.

FWIW I think Michigan and UCLA are pretty comparable schools for undergrad, although UCLA is somewhat more selective (16.1% vs 23.5% as of 2017). They're obviously both elite R1 universities with their own strengths at the graduate level.

For undergrad I think it's pretty absurd to claim either is leagues above UVA. As far as public schools go, Berkeley stands pretty clearly #1, but beyond that UCLA, Mich, and UVA are all excellent schools that will get determined students wherever they want in life. Obviously grad is an entirely different ballgame (and, incidentally, what most ranking systems are based on).

The course of study matters. I'm sure that most major public schools have a program or two that are their 'it' majors and attract talent from out of state, and that particular degree will carry significant weight in the job market.

For example, the Isenberg business school at UMass is very well respected and is probably one of the more exclusive courses of study at UMass. If you were a New England resident, it might be worth the price over your in-state business school options.

A lot of California kids are going out of state because they can't get into the desirable UC's or states. Many neighboring states let them pay in state tuition if they have a decent gpa.

White people birth rates are droping and their marriage ages are rising. Fewer white children result. What if you are a middle-aged guy and you little girl is now 18 and wants to go to UVm instead of UMaine? Yes it costs more but Burlington or Orono? You pay the extra and let her go

As a brit reading this my main conclusion is the american system is a total basket case. i can't believe we're going down the road of copying you

OP, you think you are so smart. Why wouldn't everyone just go to city public! The fact is a lot of universities offer some kind of grants, so out of state students often end up paying near an in state tuition rate. Some states offer in state rates to students from bordering states as well. Then there are univiersites that offer things you can't find elsewhere, eg sports or certain programs.

Daveramsey wrote:

It pretty much doesn’t matter where you go. All flagship public universities are about equal. Are you really trying to tell me that University of Mississippi grads are significantly worse off than a graduate from SUNY Binghamton or University of Michigan? You’ll never get me to agree to that crazy arguement. Both of graduates will be able to land jobs earning about 45-60k.. just matters how much debt you want.

Hahaha man, that is so far off base. If you’re shooting for top jobs, only one of those schools keeps your resume out of the trash, and it’s obvious which one that is. I made over 120k my first year out of Michigan, and many of my classmates made that or more as well. If you want access to the top jobs in the top cities, you need to have a top undergrad education, unless you’re born into major connections. I could never, ever, ever be where I am now if I’d have gone to a SUNY or Ole f’n Miss.

You are all idiots. what does more money matter if you dont have time to use it for holidays and your hobbies? If you love what you are doing as a job it might be fine, but still you would want some free time. you are all weaklings brainwashed to earn a little bit more. But its meaningless in the great view. also you should move to a first world country. then you wont have the university problem

Obviously a Princeton professor was trying to prove that the top ranked schools were worth the cost but he discovered the opposite. It doesn’t seem that anyone wants to be bothered reading about facts because they want to stick with what their neighbor told them about the supposed job prospects resulting from attending those schools. So the school doesn’t really matter. The equivalent students earn the same amount regardless of what school they attend. And back to the original topic,,I absolutely agree that many students are blindly attending out if state public schools just to get out of state. I have questioned several parents on this and their answer always is just that their child wanted to go there even though the schools and majors are equivalent but they are paying double. They don’t want to disappoint their children or have to speak logically with them.

A person isn't being illogical just because they value different things than you. You have apparently decided that earning potential is the single metric by which schools should be evaluated. That's fine, and you are/were free to make your school choice based on that, but other people value different things.

If it is worth money to a person to get out of state, they aren't wrong. They just have different preferences than you. If it is worth money for someone to move to a town/city that they prefer, again, they aren't inherently wrong to do so.

naht correct wrote:

kyoto wrote:

I'd wager Wisconsin is at least on the same level as UCLA and Michigan. At least it was went I went to school.

UVA and Berkeley are a cut above the rest of the publics.

Wrong on both. Wisconsin is more in line with the William & Mary's and Texas's of the world. Berkeley and Michigan are the top public schools, but UCLA and UVA are great too. That's definitely the top four, with UNC kind of right behind that.

I’d guess, from your writing skills, that you didn’t go to college at all, rendering your opinion on this topic worthless.

You can get your smoke on at Marlboro College and then go clean your teeth at Colgate University.

Wondering in the West wrote:

Oh boy, w here do I start: Penn State (Nittney Lions) is in rural Pennsylvania, Happy Valley, it is part of the Big 10 Conference.

The University of Pennsylvania (nickname Quakers, I believe) is in Philadelphia and in the Ivy League. So you wouldn't let your kid go to PENN because Philly is too dangerous, so he ended up at Temple, in the heart of Philly. I'm guessing you're joking as sarcasm doesn't come across well on the internet.

Penn State had the Sandusky scandal, not Penn.

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? You didn't catch on to the obviousness of the sarcasm, which was freaking hilarious and clever. Dude. Of course he is joking and it comes across incredibly well to anyone other than a dunce like you.

icrlp05 wrote:

As a brit reading this my main conclusion is the american system is a total basket case. i can't believe we're going down the road of copying you

You should not copy us or even think about us. Just stay over there and mind your own business. You do you, yo.

Wondering in the West wrote:

Oh boy, w here do I start: Penn State (Nittney Lions) is in rural Pennsylvania, Happy Valley, it is part of the Big 10 Conference.

The University of Pennsylvania (nickname Quakers, I believe) is in Philadelphia and in the Ivy League. So you wouldn't let your kid go to PENN because Philly is too dangerous, so he ended up at Temple, in the heart of Philly. I'm guessing you're joking as sarcasm doesn't come across well on the internet.

Penn State had the Sandusky scandal, not Penn.

Even if you didn't get the joke (yes, it's a funny idea that someone would send a kid to Temple instead of Penn State because they're scared of Philly crime), I'm not really sure why it was necessary to have it deleted. Do you report all posts that include jokes that go over your head?

kyoto wrote:

Public Ivy wrote:

I'd put Cornell on the same tier.

What about the University of Pennsylvania? It's one of the finest public colleges in the Midwest.

Are you just trolling? Cornell and the University of Pennsylvania are both private Ivy League schools, and the state of Pennsylvania is not in the Midwest.

kyoto wrote:

but lol just lol at some middle class new jersey family sending their precious child to the University of Wisconsin for $48,000 / year when Rutgers is right down the road for less than 1/2 the cost.

There's so few students at Wisco that fall into this category. There's two primary groups of out of state students. Midwestern kids that take advantage of tuition reciprocity. For instance, as a MN resident I paid in-state UofM tuition to attend UW. The other group are Jewish kids from around the country, primarily from NYC, that choose Madison because of it's tradition of having a large Jewish student population. For a couple of reason, I ended up in a private dorm my freshman year. So probably half my friends from college are Jewish. And yes, a lot of them come from families that can afford that kind of cash for out of state tuition. I'd have to really think about it, but I don't believe I knew of one kid going to school there not from WI that didn't fall into those two groups.

I thought it was pretty funny. No clue why it was deleted.