Billie Jean King and many Olympic stars call on IAAF to withdraw its Caster Semenya testosterone rule

BJK is not an Olympic star.

the Paralympics (think of all the categories they have), - you have to have rules for who and who isn't allowed to compete in that category. I find it amazing that so many Paralympians have signed this document as they know the importance of strict eligiblity rules for their sports.

Paralympics classifications are ripe with fraud, on all ends.

Why do tennis stars suddenly care about IAAF?

I know none of these names.

already a thread on this an hour before you

My argument goes along the lines of what Billie is arguing. If by all outward appearances (if you are born with a bun and not a hot dog), then you should compete in the womens division. My argument is it is the historical standard and now we are trying to introduce a new one. About 2 in 10,000 individuals is born somewhere in the spectrum between male and female, so it is fairly safe to assume that a number of past Olympic champions and world record holders were XY females. You can't make a separate division for them because they would have basically nobody to compete with as a high school or college athlete. We are against doping because it is people trying to do something that is unnatural to their bodies. It is wrong to ask these athletes to do things that are unnatural to their bodies. As far as people declaring themselves a gender other than what they are born is fine and dandy, but they shouldn't be competing in the women's division (especially if they haven't undergone hormone therapy).

joedirt wrote:

It is wrong to ask these athletes to do things that are unnatural to their bodies.

They don't have to do anything. They're more than welcome to compete in the men's division, which doubles as an open/anybody category.

I totally agree with You really cant be serious

Or we can just go straight to the ultimate solution; eliminate all categories. Do away with female, juniors, masters, Athena, Clydesdale, age groups, etc.

Why are we letting deviants and freaks and weirdos blow up every single tradition and institution in our country? Why are we letting them divide us? It’s insanity. Even mother Fing bathrooms are a source of strife and disharmony now.

So because only 2 out of 10,000 individuals on average are born with caster’s hormonal and physical situation, we should empower that tiny minority to compete against the other 9,998 woman with normal hormones despite the clear and significant advantage it provides and all the ramifications that come with it? So basically, you’re ok with women’s sport being dominated by women with male attributes at the expense of the majority of women who have little realistic hope of competing at that level; a long term byproduct of which will be discouraging normal women from competing, since the performance benchmark will now be substantially higher. How again is this helping women’s rights, by making it harder for them to compete?

Say there had been a Caster Semenya type tennis player around when Billie Jean was playing, and, as a result, Billie Jean didn't win one major title. Would she still be protesting? Well, even if she was, nobody would be listening to an also ran that never won anything.

Get a brain, Billie Jean!

portsea57 wrote:

Say there had been a Caster Semenya type tennis player around when Billie Jean was playing, and, as a result, Billie Jean didn't win one major title. Would she still be protesting? Well, even if she was, nobody would be listening to an also ran that never won anything.

Get a brain, Billie Jean!

BIllie Jean was the XY tennis player.

Yo Dude wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Say there had been a Caster Semenya type tennis player around when Billie Jean was playing, and, as a result, Billie Jean didn't win one major title. Would she still be protesting? Well, even if she was, nobody would be listening to an also ran that never won anything.

Get a brain, Billie Jean!

BIllie Jean was the XY tennis player.

Rojo, I'm not sure what you are arguing. Caster is not trans while your examples are.

Lada wrote:

Rojo, I'm not sure what you are arguing. Caster is not trans while your examples are.

If there are no rules on who can compete in the women's division then presumably a trans woman could compete with no treatment. So I'm assuming his argument is there should be rules as to who can compete in the women's division and those rules should be based on testosterone ratio.

Others might just go for old fashioned XY testing but this is out of favor now and I think most scientists if they prefer limiting who can be in the women's category prefer testosterone testing to XY testing.

I think most scientists if they prefer limiting who can be in the women's category prefer testosterone testing to XY testing.

Other scientists have considered that something like the SRY test is more notional for sports.

Even though the T-test is the largest factor (and perhaps making special cases for those who can't "use" a T-advantatge), there are other gene expressions from the Y-chromosome that make an unlevel playing field. I've never really understood the whole Patiño debate (hurdler) myself, but their argument would be that she had an unfair advantage(s) from being an XY female in other developmental aspects, despite not being able to use testosterone (AIS).

Don't expect too much "science" to decide matters though. Whatever side your argue, you can easily enlarge your contentions to seem proper. But a couple of NYT editorials, etc.

+1.

100% agree. I doubt these sports stars would be quite so generous if they were an elite female 800m runner who had spent the last decade training to win medals at championships!

"It appears that most enlightened and most passionate on the subject have deteremined that if you feel like a woman, you are a woman no matter your sexual organs. I think that is fine. "

--rojo

-----------------

This is absurd. My opinion (and the opinion of everyone up until 15 minutes ago) is that people with penises who say they "feel" like a woman are suffering from a mental illness.

Why are we so intent on indulging the delusions of a tiny minority, rather than helping them accept reality. Just because you "feel" a certain way doesn't change reality.