Time range for top 10 at Boston 2016
40-44
2:24:55 to 2:39:04
45-49
2:27:41 to 2:47:06
50-54
2:30:57 to 2:50:40
55-59
2:45:29 to 2:59:20
60-64
2:45:47 to 3:15:13
Time range for top 10 at Boston 2016
40-44
2:24:55 to 2:39:04
45-49
2:27:41 to 2:47:06
50-54
2:30:57 to 2:50:40
55-59
2:45:29 to 2:59:20
60-64
2:45:47 to 3:15:13
Fascinating.
I turned 60 this year and all i can say is there is definitely something physical going on that's slowing me up.
That said, i have a very consistent habit of getting injured about a month after a marathon, and this year was no different following the BM.
I'm on the tail end of recovering from achilles injury, but damn, even besides that, the speed just trickled away starting a few months before my 60th.
I am running through the injury quite successfully so far.
My intent is to run like i was several years ago. I definitely feel that it's not going to be easy, but i feel that i've got a few things going in my favor and i'm giving it a shot. That means, staying light, cross-training, weight training, and getting back into healthy doses of intervals and tempos in addition to running 5 days a week if not 6. So far, about the only way i can garner a good run is to skip a workout or two in order to rest up enough to do it. Maybe that's the secret. I just can't imagine that running less would bring about better times over the long term.
Anyway, turning 60 certainly caught my attention, and i'm going to give it a run for it's money.
marathon pace versus 5k wrote:
old man shuffle wrote:
Go back and read his first paragraph - the one you didn't quote. He's not a 25 year old setting PRs - he's a masters runner that's been there, done that.
I generally think it's a bad idea to keep racing marathons into your 50s and 60s. You can get away with it when you're in your 20s through 40s, but past age 50, things change. The orthopedic and cardiac risks go up so much. If you can still race 5 and 10ks into your 60s, you should be thrilled with that. THRILLED. I have so many running friends who can no longer run at all because of various physical ailments (mainly arthritis), and almost to a man, they tell me to stay away from marathons at my age.
Explain Whitlock? He had 0 cardiac issues, died of cancer, lived pretty long. Why would the cardiac risks go up? To me, blasting a mile at age 60 is more dangerous than marathon pace. Marathons aren't all that dangerous, probably safer than a hard fought 5k too.
Why bring up Whitlock? The guy had alien genetics to be able run those marathons as fast as he did in his 70s & 80s. He was also skin & bones - the perfect build for marathon running (his impact forces were very low). How many of us are built like that nor would want to look like that anyway?
I don't think marathon running or "blasting a mile" in your middle-age increases cardiovascular issues unless you already have pre-disposition for any cardiac pathology. IMO, it's musculoskeletal and age-related joint degeneration with most of us that makes the longer distances a big challenge. If you're an old guy/gal, you better be built for distance running and not have any arthritis or other joint problems. Otherwise, running a marathon or running high mileage will beat the snot out of you and put you in house of pain!
kmaclam wrote:
And aren't most all of you old timers in agreement that our 'speed' goes first? Training for a 5K at 60 has much more risk involved than doing marathon training, at least for me. Not sure I could even break 20:00 right now, but for sure I could 'run' a 3:40 marathon. Are all of you still working full time? I would think at our age the one thing we have going for us is the time to put in some mileage and the time to recover.
It does seem like the speed disappears first. But in terms of quality, I think a sub-20-minute 5K is more like a 3:15 or faster marathon. Both were challenging at 58. And from what I am reading here, it's not gonna get any easier next year at 60. No retirement in sight for me, unfortunately.
There is an authentic need for long recovery periods during marathon training that leads many fifty-somethings to switch to shorter races. I wonder if the harder, faster training for shorter races from 55 onward might actually be the catalyst for the pattern of joint issues right around age 60.
marathon pace versus 5k wrote:
old man shuffle wrote:
Go back and read his first paragraph - the one you didn't quote. He's not a 25 year old setting PRs - he's a masters runner that's been there, done that.
I generally think it's a bad idea to keep racing marathons into your 50s and 60s. You can get away with it when you're in your 20s through 40s, but past age 50, things change. The orthopedic and cardiac risks go up so much. If you can still race 5 and 10ks into your 60s, you should be thrilled with that. THRILLED. I have so many running friends who can no longer run at all because of various physical ailments (mainly arthritis), and almost to a man, they tell me to stay away from marathons at my age.
Explain Whitlock? He had 0 cardiac issues, died of cancer, lived pretty long. Why would the cardiac risks go up? To me, blasting a mile at age 60 is more dangerous than marathon pace. Marathons aren't all that dangerous, probably safer than a hard fought 5k too.
He was an exception to the rule. Like the guy who smokes a pack a day and lives to 100.
Everybody’s different, obviously. With that said, at 67 and still 5’7” and 128lbs., aside from stiff joints from no stretching and lymes, I can honestly say I have just lost interest in hard training. I can log the miles, but it’s usually just 4-6. I get bored easily, whereas 30 yrs ago I never did. Plus, I eat a ton of cookies, candy, etc. ( in a few minutes, I’m doing 6 miles w/ the dog, then making gourmet chocolate chip cookies). I think if we old folks were honest, at least some of us would say we just don’t care - there’s other stuff to do. Give me a 10 mile hike in the mtns vs running it any day. Again, loss of interest.
kmaclam wrote:
And aren't most all of you old timers in agreement that our 'speed' goes first? Training for a 5K at 60 has much more risk involved than doing marathon training, at least for me. Not sure I could even break 20:00 right now, but for sure I could 'run' a 3:40 marathon. Are all of you still working full time? I would think at our age the one thing we have going for us is the time to put in some mileage and the time to recover.
I'm finding the opposite with the distance question. It's marathon training that tears my body up. I can do way lower mileage, a little smart and sane speed stuff, and go race a 5K every week, and feel great. It's the long runs that make my muscles and joints ache for days afterward. 5K training makes me feel youthful; marathon training makes me feel old beyond my years.
And yes, I'm still working full time. Plan to until at least 70, so long as my physical and mental health is good. I like my work and would be bored without somewhere to go and something to do every day.
marathon pace versus 5k wrote:
old man shuffle wrote:
Go back and read his first paragraph - the one you didn't quote. He's not a 25 year old setting PRs - he's a masters runner that's been there, done that.
I generally think it's a bad idea to keep racing marathons into your 50s and 60s. You can get away with it when you're in your 20s through 40s, but past age 50, things change. The orthopedic and cardiac risks go up so much. If you can still race 5 and 10ks into your 60s, you should be thrilled with that. THRILLED. I have so many running friends who can no longer run at all because of various physical ailments (mainly arthritis), and almost to a man, they tell me to stay away from marathons at my age.
Explain Whitlock? He had 0 cardiac issues, died of cancer, lived pretty long. Why would the cardiac risks go up? To me, blasting a mile at age 60 is more dangerous than marathon pace. Marathons aren't all that dangerous, probably safer than a hard fought 5k too.
Yeah, bring up a once in a generation genetic freak as an example for all to follow! Brilliant!
I'm 70. I quit marathon training 18 years ago and switched to masters track. Three years ago, I added a serious lifting program. Many older LetsRun distance runners could be very competitive in masters track, so I'd urge you to consider it as an alternative to marathons. I see three major problems with marathon training after age 50: increased risk of career-ending injuries, increased need for recovery time between hard runs, and chronic elevation of cortisol levels with a commensurate increase in risk of diseases that have been linked to high cortisol. Here's what I wrote about marathon training in Tip 188 in my book.
188. Reconsider Marathon Training
It pains me to write this as the target market for this book is predominantly marathoners and half marathoners, but it’s something older runners should know. Competitive marathoning can be detrimental to your long-term health if you’re over 50. Let’s be clear. I’m not talking to the vast majority of readers. I’m talking to those runners who put in high miles for months at a time to competitively race the marathon distance.
Long duration exercise floods the body with byproducts of energy production—especially free radicals and cortisol. Without sufficient recovery time, cortisol and free radical levels will remain high, never recovering to normal levels. Over time, this can suppress your immune system. This is especially true for older adults. My circle of friends includes several older marathoners who have run fast enough to qualify for the Boston marathon. When I look this group, I see a disproportionate number of diseases that have been linked to a weak immune system.
Among these dozen or so marathoners, two have cancer, two have hypothyroidism, one has heart disease, one has Graves’ disease, and one has diabetes. Free radicals and high cortisol levels have been linked to all of these diseases. What do these serious runners have in common? They’re all over the age of 50, they all train much harder than recreational runners, and they put in high mileage month after month.
In 1999, I had blood tests done by an anti-aging clinic that compared my blood chemistry to that of a cross-section of the population. I was age 51 at the time. When I sat down to talk with the doctor, his first question was, “What in the world have you been doing?” He explained that my blood chemistry was that of a 35-year-old, but that my levels of post-exercise toxins were those of a 72-year-old! I had gone for a hard 14-mile run the previous day. Even though it was 24 hours later, my body was still suffering from the flood of toxins into my system. That was a wake-up call for me. I stopped marathon training almost immediately. I still do the occasional long run, but I take at least two days of easy recovery afterward.
Let me be clear. As a marathoner, your health risk is still less than that of nonrunners. Plus, it’s not the marathon itself that raises your potential health risks. The marathon will be over in a few hours. Instead, it’s the years of high mileage training that creates chronically high cortisol and free radical levels without sufficient recovery time to flush those toxins out of the body. In this weakened state, the body is more susceptible to the diseases of aging: cancer, heart disease, and more.
fisky wrote:
I'm 70. I quit marathon training 18 years ago and switched to masters track. Three years ago, I added a serious lifting program. Many older LetsRun distance runners could be very competitive in masters track, so I'd urge you to consider it as an alternative to marathons.
I see three major problems with marathon training after age 50: increased risk of career-ending injuries, increased need for recovery time between hard runs, and chronic elevation of cortisol levels with a commensurate increase in risk of diseases that have been linked to high cortisol. Here's what I wrote about marathon training in Tip 188 in my book.
188. Reconsider Marathon Training
It pains me to write this as the target market for this book is predominantly marathoners and half marathoners, but it’s something older runners should know. Competitive marathoning can be detrimental to your long-term health if you’re over 50. Let’s be clear. I’m not talking to the vast majority of readers. I’m talking to those runners who put in high miles for months at a time to competitively race the marathon distance.
Long duration exercise floods the body with byproducts of energy production—especially free radicals and cortisol. Without sufficient recovery time, cortisol and free radical levels will remain high, never recovering to normal levels. Over time, this can suppress your immune system. This is especially true for older adults. My circle of friends includes several older marathoners who have run fast enough to qualify for the Boston marathon. When I look this group, I see a disproportionate number of diseases that have been linked to a weak immune system.
Among these dozen or so marathoners, two have cancer, two have hypothyroidism, one has heart disease, one has Graves’ disease, and one has diabetes. Free radicals and high cortisol levels have been linked to all of these diseases. What do these serious runners have in common? They’re all over the age of 50, they all train much harder than recreational runners, and they put in high mileage month after month.
In 1999, I had blood tests done by an anti-aging clinic that compared my blood chemistry to that of a cross-section of the population. I was age 51 at the time. When I sat down to talk with the doctor, his first question was, “What in the world have you been doing?” He explained that my blood chemistry was that of a 35-year-old, but that my levels of post-exercise toxins were those of a 72-year-old! I had gone for a hard 14-mile run the previous day. Even though it was 24 hours later, my body was still suffering from the flood of toxins into my system. That was a wake-up call for me. I stopped marathon training almost immediately. I still do the occasional long run, but I take at least two days of easy recovery afterward.
Let me be clear. As a marathoner, your health risk is still less than that of nonrunners. Plus, it’s not the marathon itself that raises your potential health risks. The marathon will be over in a few hours. Instead, it’s the years of high mileage training that creates chronically high cortisol and free radical levels without sufficient recovery time to flush those toxins out of the body. In this weakened state, the body is more susceptible to the diseases of aging: cancer, heart disease, and more.
There is not one ounce of sarcasm in my response..
A majority of my local runner friends are all 50+, I am infatuated and inspired by their consistency, year after year, decade after decade. I am only 31, but train with the idea of doing this for decades to come. I've been running in some way shape or form since my youth, played sports that all required a lot of strength work and running. Throughout my early-late 20s, I kept my mileage between 10-20 mpw, extremely modest with no aspirations for marathon running, but my love of running and overall fitness and maintaining athleticism was the biggest driver.
Over the last 2.5-3 years, I've crept up towards the 25-35 mpw, and a couple times hit the 40 mpw. I have some running talent, but not even sub elite on my best day. I am running my first marathon this September, and quite honestly, I have a very loose time goal but my main focus is to enjoy the experience of being out there, and as a diabetic, I really never envisioned this day coming. I've given my body several years of adaption and genuinely just try and enjoy my training and look at it more as an adventure. If I am feeling good that day, I'll push it a bit, if I am dragging from life's responsibilities and work, I'll call it an active recovery day, throw some body weight moves in and just get blood flowing. I sprinkle speed work in from time to time, but I don't try to overdo it. Years of strength work and sprints in my previous endeavors gives me a good enough base and some strides keep that engine primed.
One of my running mentors told me, "If you're constantly chasing the clock or keep your training black and white, month after month, year after year, by the time you're my age (56), you probably won't even remember what running is about, as you'll burn out long before then."
I'll keep mixing it up on the trails and roads and find races that look fun, of course we all want to be competitive no matter our age, but I try to never forget how blessed I am just to get outside for an easy 4 miler any given day. Happy running to all.
This is a great thread, lots of good info and perspectives. I'm 50 and like others on here I raced in HS, College, and continued to race as a Masters runner. I've run a dozen or so marathons and honestly that is the distance I'm primarily built for. I'm not quick but I can hammer those miles. That being said as I've aged my joints just cannot take the marathon training any more. The last 3-5 years I've really developed some bad knee issues and recovery is a very very long slow process at this age. You just don't bounce back like you can when you are younger.
I would like to join in and add to what others have said and tell other Master's runners to embrace shorter distances. There are races that are not marathons, and they are more fun. The good thing about running in the Masters track series, or doing some open XC races or even some 5ks>10M is that if you crap out and have a bad run, bad conditions, etc.. you can come back in 2 weeks and give it another shot. Also the training doesn't come to dominate your life like it can do with the marathon where you are constantly trying to grab extra miles here or there throughout the week, and then of course there's the long run that takes 2.5-3 hrs to run +drive time +recovery (i.e. nap) = half your Sat is gone.
Again, good thread and I hope y'all can keep running.
Yep, great thread for us older runners.
I'm 57 and pondering what will come in the next few years. I don't have the pedigree of many on this thread but was able to run
EZ10Miler wrote:
This is a great thread, lots of good info and perspectives. I'm 50 and like others on here I raced in HS, College, and continued to race as a Masters runner. I've run a dozen or so marathons and honestly that is the distance I'm primarily built for. I'm not quick but I can hammer those miles. That being said as I've aged my joints just cannot take the marathon training any more. The last 3-5 years I've really developed some bad knee issues and recovery is a very very long slow process at this age. You just don't bounce back like you can when you are younger.
I would like to join in and add to what others have said and tell other Master's runners to embrace shorter distances. There are races that are not marathons, and they are more fun. The good thing about running in the Masters track series, or doing some open XC races or even some 5ks>10M is that if you crap out and have a bad run, bad conditions, etc.. you can come back in 2 weeks and give it another shot. Also the training doesn't come to dominate your life like it can do with the marathon where you are constantly trying to grab extra miles here or there throughout the week, and then of course there's the long run that takes 2.5-3 hrs to run +drive time +recovery (i.e. nap) = half your Sat is gone.
Again, good thread and I hope y'all can keep running.
Are you me? I could have posted almost the exact same thing. In my 40s I transitioned away from marathons as I began to experience knee pain. I didn't want to need a walker in my 70s. Now I focus on 5ks and 10ks, and might throw in one half marathon every other year or so. It's been great. I've added strength training and some cycling, and, with the elimination of marathon specific training, my knees are really feeling better.
And I love the shorter races. Have a bad 5k? Big deal, go run one again next Saturday. They're fun and have a great social scene with running friends you see week after week. It's not like having a bad marathon, where you still have to go through a long recovery, then start another 16 week training block before trying another one.
And I LOVE not having to try to fit in 20 milers anymore, runs that trash my knees and make me pretty useless the rest of the day.
grim reaper wrote:
people approaching death realize there is more to life than running an arbitrary distance in an equally arbitrary amount of time, contemplate how much of their life they have wasted in pursuit of arbitrary goals, and pursue different arbitrary goals while putting less effort into the arbitrary goal on which they have already wasted a large percentage of their life
Not only that but running gets harder...
my theory is that biomechanics start suffering and one becomes less efficient and this of course uses more oxygen and therefore you slow down... also like the reaper points out, you don't care as much either.
About to turn 60 wrote:
Looking at race results from my favorite marathons, I notice that the number of participants in the 60-64 age group plunges dramatically from the age 55-59 group. And, the 55-59 group has times well under 3 hours(winners after 60 can be suddenly 20 to 39 minutes slower).
Anyone want to comment on their individual experiences as to what happens in such a short time?
Knees, Arthritis, Training, Recovery and perhaps the realization that marathoning is unhealthy. At age 60, regular casual exercise will prolong your life better than intense long distance.
Nice to know I’m not alone in this equation. For me it was when I was about to turn 55 and noticing a significant difference in times in the 55-59 group compared to 50-54 from the 5K to the marathon. I’ve run since high school, virtually injury free, save for a bout with plantar fasciitis at age 52 and was all set to become an Age Group All Star the moment I hit 55. What has happened instead, almost from the moment I turned 55 , has been a humbling litany of tweaks and twinges, nothing to sideline me for a significant period of time but enough to impact my training to the point that I’m not usually not able to do what was my bread and butter training (long runs, hills) nearly to the extent that I was before. I’ve done no marathons and only one half (56) since turning 55, doing a host of 5K’s and the occasional 10. I suppose the bright side is I’m still able to get out 2 or 3 times a week a be reasonably competitive within my age group and still enjoy the process. Something that I began a few months ago that seems to be helping is lap swimming.
The water seems to be a salve of sorts to my joints and I still get that welcome endorphin rush. 59 now, turning 60 next year, so we’ll see what the journey will hold moving forward
The same reason more people smoke and drink at 58 than at 60!
Marathons take the greatest toll on health. THE KILLER combo of distance/effort .
You want to be shocked just take a look at 60 plus stud marathoners like Rogers , Shorter or Galloway. Their springs are sprung they look like they are running in quicksand.
As you age move down in distance and replace base with low or non impact cross training. Keep your speed just be smart and get plenty of recovery. The sprinters age much better than the distance runners. Polarized training. Also I believe you can reach 90 to 95 percent of your best on 50 percent of the speed work. Instead of 20 minute tempo run a 10 minute tempo. Instead of 10 x 400 do 5x400. Replace a speed session with a non impact speed session in the pool or on the bike. You want to still be running at 70 then plan ahead.
I suppose this thread is making me excited to keep trying and see what happens. I was able to maintain 50-60 miles per week on average year round throughout my forties and fifties and about 2 dozen marathons with very few shorter races.
It is certainly easier to maintain that program since retiring a year ago.
The finishing time is a factor. I will probably train for the full because I enjoy the process but race the half if I am looking at finishing times this year upwards of 3:30+. That just seems like too much time on the feet. 2.5 hour long runs were sufficient for about 3 hour races but I may not enjoy 3-4 hour long runs as the finishing times balloon.
I would like to see a performance curve v. age in swimming v. running. I do both running and rock climbing at very similar effort levels, running for 46 years and climbing for 40, and while I have slowed a minute per mile (with occasional injuries) in running since my forties, I am at my strongest ever in climbing (with zero injuries, nothing close). In both sports I am very focused on technique, balance and proper lifestyle and recovery.
At some point, it is mostly the impact stress.
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