Why are there so few Kenyans and Moroccans in Masters ranking lists?

lollerama wrote:

Coevett wrote:

And if they were running close to 13:00 at 25, they should be able to run sub 15:00 with ease at 45.

I used to think that too, but that's not the way it works most of the time. People burn out. I know quite a few Masters runners who I can crush with my lame 17 minute 5k that were well under 15 in their early 20s.

One guy in particular made it to his early 30s still running mid-15s, only to be reduced to struggling to break 20 in his early 50s. Seriously. He never stopped running. He just slowed and then fell off a cliff, it seemed. Another guy I know, whom this website had a thread about once, ran in college and got under 14 minutes, and was running 18-mid by his early 40s. These things happen.

'Burn out' can also be a sign of ped use. For example, when guys stop taking steroids after years of using them, their natural testosterone production is almost gone so their ability to create muscle is worse than before they started steroids. Particularly so, of course, if they get off the juice in their 30s or 40s.

I guess stopping EPO is something similar in terms of effects on the body. I suspect Kiprop stopped the EPO after the Aden bust and being flagged as a likely doper, then last winter maybe went back on at least microdosing when he discovered he couldn't even run sub 3:34 without it anymore.

ex-runner wrote:

Something wrong with you. If there's one place where doping has a huge effect is in masters men. Those T levels start dropping like a stone when you hit 40.

I absolutely love how you pick out Tony Whiteman running 1:48 as being a sign that he and more widely the British aren't doping ahaha

Well what a despicable human being you are. You're starting to make Saidipede and El K look wholesome in comparison.

You'are a self-confessed doper and now you're accusing Tony Whiteman of being one. Just shameful.

Yeah, makes perfect sense. Doesn't seem he was on EPO when he was in his prime in that era, but he would cheat in his forties. Oh, and as far as I know, he runs (and recorded those times) in British senior track meets running against athletes 20 years younger than him, so presumably he would be getting tested (unlike most masters).

And he just ran his last race :(

Coevett wrote:

'Burn out' can also be a sign of ped use. For example, when guys stop taking steroids after years of using them, their natural testosterone production is almost gone so their ability to create muscle is worse than before they started steroids. Particularly so, of course, if they get off the juice in their 30s or 40s.

I guess stopping EPO is something similar in terms of effects on the body. I suspect Kiprop stopped the EPO after the Aden bust and being flagged as a likely doper, then last winter maybe went back on at least microdosing when he discovered he couldn't even run sub 3:34 without it anymore.

You might be very right on the EPO issue, as a main reason you don't see all these guys from back then competing as Masters runners.

The friends I mentioned weren't on anything, so obviously many people fall apart dramatically as they age regardless of whether they used PEDs or not.

We are forgetting that most Kenyans are about a decade older than they claim to be. So a Kenyan running 13:00 5k at age 25 actual age about 30-35. So there is probably several Kenyans over age 40 running 13:00 5k, but claim to be 30 years old.

Sand Dunes wrote:

We are forgetting that most Kenyans are about a decade older than they claim to be. So a Kenyan running 13:00 5k at age 25 actual age about 30-35. So there is probably several Kenyans over age 40 running 13:00 5k, but claim to be 30 years old.

If money does start coming into Masters athletics, you can be sure it will get flooded with Africans claiming to be older than they really are.

Sand Dunes wrote:

We are forgetting that most Kenyans are about a decade older than they claim to be. So a Kenyan running 13:00 5k at age 25 actual age about 30-35. So there is probably several Kenyans over age 40 running 13:00 5k, but claim to be 30 years old.

Don't tell me Lagat is really 53 yrs old now?

Malaria and TB wrote:

I can name several Kenyan runners who were dead before they could have excelled as Masters.

Florence Griffith Joyne and Antonio Pettigrew didn't die of either malaria or TB.

Coevett wrote:

what about the many Moroccans who couldn't even get in their national team because sub 13:00 wasn't good enough back then?

9 Moroccans ran under 13:00 between Aouita 1985 and Iguider 2015.

Exaggerating things "a bit" again?

I want to be like those guys wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

We are forgetting that most Kenyans are about a decade older than they claim to be. So a Kenyan running 13:00 5k at age 25 actual age about 30-35. So there is probably several Kenyans over age 40 running 13:00 5k, but claim to be 30 years old.

Don't tell me Lagat is really 53 yrs old now?

I wouldn't doubt it. Eliud Kipchoge actual age is around that range.

“Burnout CAN also be a sign of PED use.” That is different from it is definitely happening though the PED use. Take high schoolers for example. Many quit after high school because of burnout. You think they are all on drugs? The answer is no. Yet you think that if a Kenyan or Moroccan burns out, it is because of drugs. See the issue here?

Wrong, most Americans who run in high school and quit, quit because they are weak minded and did too much anerobic work and not enough easy jogging.

Because hardly anyone gives a sh!t about masters running. Many Kenyans run as a way to escape poverty. By the time masters running comes along, running is no longer an option to escape if it has not been used already, so they would focus on other ways to make s living. Same with those who made it in running. Unless they truly love running with a strong passion like Lagat, Gebresallasie, there is simply no reason to continue.

This question raises nothing at the possibility of Kenyans and Moroccans doping. The answer is just what we have already known, that nobody cares about masters running. I know that is hard for you to imagine as you have mentioned in another thread that you only started running a couple years ago and have a passion for it. That is cool. Now imagine you were Seb Coe. Training as hard as you can from the time you were a teen for almost 20 years straight to be the world’s best. Don’t you think that would have an effect on you at the end? That is burnout.

My father was an exceptional sprinter. Later, he got big and fat. He was never on PEDs. He was very athletic, but didn't particularly like to exercising for the hell of it. He preferred to do more meaningful things with his adult years.

*to exercise*

You think they test in BMC meets........

You aren't British at all

Coevett wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

We are forgetting that most Kenyans are about a decade older than they claim to be. So a Kenyan running 13:00 5k at age 25 actual age about 30-35. So there is probably several Kenyans over age 40 running 13:00 5k, but claim to be 30 years old.

If money does start coming into Masters athletics, you can be sure it will get flooded with Africans claiming to be older than they really are.

There has been money in Masters running for 30 years and Joseph Nzau was the first to gain a couple of years at around 38.

I bet if you even met a Kenyan or Moroccan in real life you would change you stance instantly. I knew a few Kenyans in USA from high school who are some of the coolest dudes I ever met. Take a step back. Look at how ridiculous you sound. Surely your wife would disapprove of your stance.

So Kenyans only run as a means to escape from poverty.

Well I doubt if many European or American middle and long distance runners started out in the hope of escaping from poverty, so if you can't see that Kenyans are far more likely to dope then you're dumb.

Also, how many masters runners run full-time? I guess all the Europeans that dominate the ranking lists had large inheritances or were dot com millionaires by the time they were 35 and decided to challenge themselves as Masters athletes? Or maybe they're all welfare scroungers, perhaps faking osteoarthritis to claim disability benefits whilst running 2: 10 800m races at the weekend? Whiteman obviously made millions from the sport making world championship semis and being outrun by EPO juiced Moroccans, and so could afford to carry on in Masters competitions for nothing.

You're really reaching now. No one gives a sh!+ about masters. I don't personally know a single person who cares about masters. Why not raise your kids and love your wife? Stop being a deadbeat, Coevett. Stop running fro. the authorities and pay your child support, you POS. Your kids will care if daddy talked to them, not what your 5k at age 50 was.