New Notre Dame head coach

Indian rocks ND wrote:

The coaches ruined a program that could run itself. They could just sit back and allow fast kids to walk on and they would have remained competitive. Instead, they snubbed many 4:10-4:15 HS kids. I spoke to Turner at a college meet in the fall about my son who had filled out their recruitment form. Turner took his name and acted excited and said he would call on Monday. No response and no response to his recruiting form. 9:15 as a junior and a 35 ACT. Kids like this who are dyeing to walk on are being ignored. These are the types of kids who go on to run 9 flat as seniors and 14 flat in college.

Where did your son end up? How big of a scholarship?

“The distance coaches”? I’d start by looking at Coach Turner’s own sprints assistant coach...

Notre Dame didn't bother to reply to my daughter's inquiry. She's ranked top-10 nationally in her distance event for track.

Finally got back to AFTER she'd signed with another university and had the signing mentioned by Milesplit. What the hell.

He waited until the regular signing period and signed at a power 5 state school with a full tuition academic scholarship and books from Track & XC. I guess that probably counts as about a 5% scholarship. It seems that scholarships are hard to come by for decent distance runners unless you are sub 9. He is certainly hoping to beat some of the ND guys over the next 4 years.

Wow, that puts her around 4:45 and 10:10. ND has missed some real talent over the past few years. We have seen many posts about it. I still don't see it changing though. They seem to sign national elites and then there are always a few average runners that obviously must be from families that are making large donations if they are bypassing better runners to get to them.

Yep, more or less on one of those times. It was weird, they just seemed disorganized and like they had no process. She was actively interested too.

Former ND Fan wrote:

Wow, that puts her around 4:45 and 10:10. ND has missed some real talent over the past few years. We have seen many posts about it. I still don't see it changing though. They seem to sign national elites and then there are always a few average runners that obviously must be from families that are making large donations if they are bypassing better runners to get to them.

I'm not saying this is your daughter...but as we've covered, recruiting women is a crap shoot. It's possible they saw your daughter coming from a very high level high school program already running high mileage...so had little room for improvement. In which case, they weren't going to offer your daughter much if any $$$. Now, in that case, I straight up lie something about "we have enough invested in your event group so aren't able to offer you anything this year, and understand if you don't want to come for free...but you'd be welcome to do so." But then you run the risk of them talking to other similar athletes that ARE getting big offers (especially if they DO come)...so maybe they decided it was safer just not to say anything instead of insulting your daughter.

Or your daughter had yet to hit puberty, clearly wasn't getting her period and/or is...very lean. Those are all HUGE red flags and obvious ticking time bombs...and common enough with those top-10 caliber women. And you don't even want those walking on to your team to infect others IF there are some disordered eating issues that come along with that. If you don't think I'm finding that out before we make a big offer...I'm definitely asking those questions & doing my homework no matter how uncomfortable it makes the family feel. That kid is likely going to spend their entire college career hurt...at best. It's sad...but it also doesn't need to be our problem.

Now maybe none of this was an issue...but your daughter looked like a mechanical nightmare & a steady rider of the MRI merry-go-round based off her form...meaning she likely won't be able to put in college-level training in order to improve to the level she'd need to. Or you and her mother don't exactly have "runner's bodies" and neither does she...which doesn't bode well for her when she hits those freshman dining halls. Or maybe she got a reputation as a tough athlete to work with in general.

I'm not saying this was your daughter...but there's a lot more to recruiting women than just based off time (even though I've already admitted you HAVE to focus on those top-10 caliber women). Maybe they just got wind that dad was overly involved & controlling...and you sure as hell don't want that in your program. Cheers!

I agree with everything that you stated. That is how a good coach/recruitor would approach this. However, you put more time into your response than what the ND staff put into thinking about or answering many recruits. It just seemed like they literally hit the delete button on their recruiting forms and voicemails. It seems like the coach had a decent contract and assumed the pay would always be there.

Those are all legit concerns when it comes to high-performing female distance runners. However, none of them apply here. Low mileage, healthy weight, solid mechanics. Sorry she doesn't fit your narrative. (You do sound pretty defensive, which is interesting. ) ND not responding to her was not a big deal, more of a curiosity than anything else. Thought I'd mention it, as it was surprising. Carry on.

Holy crap this is wrong. Turner's own athletes male and female, along with athletes from every other event group reported him to the AD for many offenses over many years. He actively impeded the recruiting and coaching of his assistants and made the lives of his athletes unnecessarily miserable . God help whatever poor program Turner ruins next.

Kip litton

What was Swarbrick thinking when he hired an ultra-liberal guy to run the track program at Notre Dame? The 5 alarm dumpster fire that followed could take years to put out.

Positive note: I had the opportunity to be on campus yesterday. The outdoor track facility is really looking good.

There were a number of people milling about checking out the facilities from a distance as the Harris Family Track entrance area is under construction.

Daughter reminded me that wanting to run for ND should never be just about who the coach is, was or will be.

ND is a special place. Is it perfect... No.. Expensive ? Yes, but even after her set backs and let downs, she still recognizes the fact that being in and around ND is better than being anywhere else for her.

Let’s hope the new HC has depth of character, resilience, and capable of leading ND into the next phase of a long term commitment..

You are talking in riddles. So it is the best place but she has had setbacks? What was her experience with the coach?

No riddles.. see previous posts..

Daughter is student at St. Mary’s, runs the 400. She is a junior attempting to transfer in Spring term.

I have 1 daughter at ND and one at St Mary’s.

We have followed program for past 7 years.

Could she have had more assistance from HC and Asst sprint coach? Maybe.

We knew going in she must gain acceptance first. We still attended indoor and Outdoor meets due to her interest.

I have no reason to be upset with prior coaches.. Daughter was told by admissions once acceptance is obtained to reach out to the coaches.

I think it would be helpful going forward for ND HC & staff to let potential recruits understand the process more clearly on the website.

ACCEPTANCE LETTER REQUIREMENT: with explanation

1. Scholarship standards

2. Walk on standards

Otherwise... athletes and parents who are hoping for contact by coaches will continue to be disappointed and complain on whatever forum is available..

Disclaimer: If no acceptance letter from The University of ND - No further contact from the XC /TF coaches is likely to happen.

*This should be listed on the bottom of the recruitment sheet.

This would end the unhappy recruit/angry parent saga.

That is backward. They will want most of their recruiting to be finished during the rosary siginingnoeriod which happens primo to their admissions acceptance. They also have not been interested in publishing standards because they will snub a 4:10 guy but accept a 4:15 guy because of other factors such as religion, alumni status, or donations. ND is more complex than people want to believe.

Process ? wrote:

That is backward. They will want most of their recruiting to be finished during the rosary siginingnoeriod which happens primo to their admissions acceptance. They also have not been interested in publishing standards because they will snub a 4:10 guy but accept a 4:15 guy because of other factors such as religion, alumni status, or donations. ND is more complex than people want to believe.

Every school has its nuances.

A bunch of butthurt parents, athletes, and coaches on this thread.

There are tons of good prospects and there are tons of choices.

You really want something, go get it. Period.

You may be on to something.

We know that a prior recruit had a lower ACT than my daughter.. they attended the same high school..

I won’t get in to my thoughts on the prized recruit lasting 5 seconds at ND .

Some students for many reasons are showered with attention. Others struggle in vain to achieve the same goals. We aren’t well healed like some at ND... but we have managed with no debt,daughters have a family that cares and a few in the community of ND that have taken an interest to help.

I do believe in a number instances decisions were made based on other unknown factors.

Could prior staffs hands have been directed and tied. Probably.

Day to day coaching no idea. But I’ve followed long enough to know every one of those past coaches cared about their athletes. I have seen all of the coaches at meets and their expressions.. I wouldn’t hesitate to allow my daughter to seek acceptance at a school where Coach Turner were to land. But my daughter really has said ND & SMC are the options for her for undergrad.

Not every athlete has the tenacity, mental and physical abilities to achieve great success on the D1 level . I can’t even say ? my daughter is there. But I know if given the opportunity she will put forth the effort.

I truly want ND to succeed in XC & TF and become a great program.