El Guerrouj "base" phase

Let it Rupp wrote:

http://www.sweatelite.co/specific-training-of-olympic-1500m-champion-taoufik-makhloufi/

Makhloufi's training plan looks pretty similar, if not even more extreme, and he's also highly suspected of doping.

Really? I've never heard that before? ?

Coevett, you drunk man? I feel bad for you. For a guy with "Coe" in his name, you shouldn't be slandering about EPO when Lord Coe was more than likely on steroids like most others in the 80's and a mix of blood transfusions. Pretty common at the time and Coe was the chosen one just like Froome. You Brits are notorious dopers. I for one believe El Guerrouj was clean. GOAT 1500m.

Coevett wrote:

What does this prove you idiot? EPO was available and actually legal all through those years and before. In 1994 he'd likely already been taking bucket loads of EPO (not to mention all the other good stuff) for several years.

And actually, that's not a typical progression. Most athletes would suffer an injury in at least one of those years, especially doing the training he was doing and running 100% max week in week out, including churning out sub 3:30 1500m races like clockwork from 1996 - 2004

Doped to the Max wrote:

klk;l3 wrote:

The man was cleaner than most... great progression

Progression at 1500 m

1994 3:33.61

1995 3:31.16

1996 3:29.05

1997 3:28.91

1998 3:26.00

So was fellow countryman Rashid Ramzi: ?

2002 3:44.85

2003 3:39.30

2004 3:30.25

2005 3:30.00 *

2006 3:29.14

Don't forget those incredible OFF-SCORES, they deserve a medal all by themselves.

;OKL wrote:

I for one believe El Guerrouj was clean. GOAT 1500m.

GOAT = Giant Of Autologous Transfusions

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Doped to the Max wrote:

So was fellow countryman Rashid Ramzi: ?

2002 3:44.85

2003 3:39.30

2004 3:30.25

2005 3:30.00 *

2006 3:29.14

Don't forget those incredible OFF-SCORES, they deserve a medal all by themselves.

+1

Most definitely! ?

What you have to remember is that he was doing nothing else other than run and recover and that he had a very effective support team to help him get through this training load; massage, medical attention, dietary advice all immediately to hand.

And if you look closely at his programme there are easier sessions/days included. Also, is it any less demanding to run 100+ miles aweek for months on end at an slower pace? Some runners would find this type of approach a guarantee of injury but would thrive on a lower volume/higher intensity programme.

Welll....this wrote:

Dopers ruin training theory wrote:

El Guerrouj's training is the basis for the statement, "dopers ruined training theory." You cannot go hard every day in this sport without chemical help in addition to doing all the little things. Average exercisers tend closer to El G than average runners (their runs are always at a hard effort and the term "easy run" seems like an oxymoron), but no self-respecting distance runner with a mile PR 3:50-6:00 who isn't doping would be well-served following an El G plan.

+1

Also, would not be surprised if this training schedule is greatly exaggerated.

I wouldn't be surprised if the training schedule isn't exaggerated. I'd be more surprised to learn El G wasn't following a doping regimen that would make Lance Armstrong jealous. The amount of volume cheaters can put in and recover from is unreal compared to what most clean athletes can do. EPO and other peds have taken the sport to the point where it doesn't serve to emulate any pro's schedule.

There is always the chance that El G was really just that freakishly talented though. More money needs to be put into developing testing for peds and testing athletes. Top athletes should be tested almost daily, world and national record holders should be tested daily.

Hahahaha, that's some great "science" behind your argument.

Its all about red cells. Its easy to focus of muscular work when the aerobic development is done for you with daily injections.

Kvothe wrote:

More money needs to be put into developing testing for peds and testing athletes. Top athletes should be tested almost daily, world and national record holders should be tested daily.

If you actually care about clean sport more money needs to go in to investigating athletes rather than testing athletes. Athletes can pass tests all day long, it is a joke. Follow the money trail, known associates, communications, travel, etc... Your high level athletes very rarely will be caught with a test.

Kvothe wrote:

More money needs to be put into developing testing for peds and testing athletes. Top athletes should be tested almost daily, world and national record holders should be tested daily.

Oh...sure, just a waste a money & resources. Dopers are way ahead of the testing. Why do you think very few athletes test positive these days? And the ones that do slip up on occasion always seem to find some crazy excuse that gets them off the hook.

El Guerrouj is discredited imo given what we know about morrocan doping and the lack of Epo testing.

He was great to watch ,has to be said

i m close friend of elguerouj s coach abdelkader kada since 1984 ,means hicham toohalf marathon in berkane s hisham too ,if i can post a photo may be his fb text inviting me oto his international half marathon in berkane w/all his generation athletes ,ok the point here to mention is all the hisham trainningsare r false in prior post :even the one mentioned by reporters, elite athlete cant say during season his exact work out bcz his opponent will benefit . know his fitness ,i remember i was practicing w/kenyan in flagstff suppose to race canceled race told the race excuse that he was injured ans we were practicing hard ,that a game .i believe kadda will publish 1 day hisham work out may be a deal there w/publisher.i was impressed w hisham work out in track session bcz usually his coach dosn t let others to watch him las t hing hicham had unique stride powerfull nice long sprint some time during last 500m at 1500m race

African elite,

Hicham do drugs?

High Shem el Guerouj major EPO player.

klk;l3 wrote:

The man was cleaner than most... great progression

Progression at 1500 m

1994 3:33.61

1995 3:31.16

1996 3:29.05

1997 3:28.91

1998 3:26.00

Saying he was clean is the most clueless thing ever posted on this board.

who's got the keys to the El Geep wrote:

Coevett wrote:

And yet he never once got injured..

didn't he have a serious injury/sickness that screwed him up for a year or two early in his career?

Too much EPO for his system to handle at 15?

Let it Rupp wrote:

http://www.sweatelite.co/specific-training-of-olympic-1500m-champion-taoufik-makhloufi/

Makhloufi's training plan looks pretty similar, if not even more extreme, and he's also highly suspected of doping. Low mileage with insane amounts of quality at high speed.

From the article above :

“If you think about how long a 1500m race lasts for (lets say 3 minutes and 40 seconds), then why are we running 90 minutes at a slow pace? Does it really do anything for a middle distance race? There seems to be a common weekly mileage of between 80 and 100 miles a week. Is it necessary to run that amount for a middle distance race?”

LOL, no need for 90 minute long runs when you can get the same benefit from a certain pharmaceutical substance that rhymes with Mo.

Somebody posted on Facebook recently an even more incredible alleged workout of Makhloufi, in which he starts with an 800m at sub 1:46, a 3 minute rest and then a 600 at the same pace, another 3 minute rest, and then a 400 at the same pace.

Runner_Lambda wrote:

I am very astonished to see which workouts El Guerrouj was doing during his first cycle of training:

. 30-45 min of continuous running @ 2:50-3:10/km (marathon pace)

. 50-60 min of continuous running @ 2:50-3:10/km (marathon pace)

. 4 x 2000 m in 5:10 with 2 min recovery (between 3K and 5K pace)

. 6 x 1000 m in 2:30 with 2 min recovery (~ 3K pace)

+ strength, power, drills ...

This very different from what is usually described as base phase because it emphasizes a high level of quality instead of volume. In fact, each workout is either a sub-threshold tempo run or an interval training session. There are no such things as easy runs.

Any thoughts on this ? Would it work on average runners too ?

You listed four workouts. What about the other three days? For the best 1500/mile runner in history, those four workouts are very doable, especially if the other three days are easier. If they were actually in "base phase," four days of quality running per week would be excessive, but other world class runners have run a lot more mileage than this. "Marathon pace" is tempo speed, so basically you have just two high-quality sub-5K workouts, with nothing like the 20 x 400 at around 60 seconds each that some great historic milers have run. I'm not denying the possibility that El Guerrouj was doped, but there's nothing outrageous in either the quality or the quantity of these workouts to support it.