Should Killian Jornet be considered the greatest runner in the world currently?

Killian is killin it wrote:

Or simply the greatest athlete? Think about it. The world is 99.99% off road. This is Killian terrain!! So basically, he can leave everyone else on the planet in the dust other than when doing an all out non-stop run on a road...which he hates.

If he was able to climb up Everest without Oxygen then maybe he would be close to being the greatest athlete. but he couldn't. He failed, twice in a row. So, nope, not the greatest athlete. Just an also ran.

Joe Gray and Dave Le Porho are welcome to try the Hardrock or the Western States and try and beat Krar. Oh wait, they never will because they can't. Krar lost in the world mountain running champs? ok. He could have entered the local mini triathlon and lost in that as well. Who cares. He doesn't SPECIALIZE in that. It doesn't matter how many olympians or whatever they are, they will highly likely not be competitive in something like the UTMB or Hardrock. You lied. Killian never entered skala opp. Why? Gray never did well there in any case. Listen. To make it more clear to you, take a look at the Pikes Peak ascent races. Joe Gray has won the Ascent of the mountain and Killian has won the grueling Pikes Peak marathon. They're completely different things and there's no way you would expect either to be able to finish first in both events. Gray mostly does mountain races in which there is just ONE hill climb. That's it. Finish at the top. And it's usually races of 5-6 miles. It's completely different.

First off I greatly respect Krar. His run at WS100 in the heat only a few minutes of the CR is for sure probably the greatest performance at WS for men...ever (considering the CR was set in very cool conditions).

I've also raced Krar, Gray and others at World Mountain Champs. 10km-12km up a ski slope is a different ballgame. (For the record though I did beat them both in that race).

Krar has also run 6:10 or so at Lake Sonoma 50 and had an excellent win over Killian and Dakota Jones at the UROC 100km in Colorado.

But Krar has never run Hardrock or UTMB....so I'm not sure if we can compare those races (to UTMB yet). Whereas Killian has won both UTMB and WS100. However, I'd guess that WS100 was probably the "most flat and runnable" trail race Killian has ever done. He's not going to show up at North Face 50-miler Champs in SF because that only has 10,000' of climbing and no technical/mountain trails.

If you want competition in ultras the most competitive race (on the men's side) is Comrades by far. That's why it's $40,000 to win and you go against 2:08 marathoners.

As far as Pikes goes.. I'd actually say the Ascent is a lot like the Marathon since you come back down the very same trail. (note I haven't done the marathon yet, but i'm planning to this year). Obviously Joe is a better flat-out climber up Barr, but it's not like he is bad at downhill with his 28-min 10km speed. It's really only slightly technical above tree line. Some years people (Carpenter) can win both the Ascent and the Full Marathon in the same weekend. The key is to be altitude trained and to be able to climb runnable trails at grades of 7-15% mainly.

When Killian ran there at Pikes I believe he called it a "flat road" (the marathon has over 7,000' of climbing!). Nobody is touching the CR there anymore though. Nobody is even getting the halfway split on the ascent. I think Killian went up in 2:16-2:18....Matt Carpenter split 2:01. Joe's gone like 2:05-2:06 I think and I've only gone 2:10. But Joe and I were just doing the Ascent with those "up "splits. Carpenter than came down in 1:15...which is flying. Of all the US records in mountain-ultra-trail running that Pikes Peak Marathon time is for sure the most ridiculous by far IMO.

I must agree with guessagain. Kilian did in fact race in skala in norway! Best race in Scandinavia. The top 2 norwegian athletes were far more superior to kilian at that race and also american joe gray who won the race. Must say gray ran strong but norway had the best depth for steep uphill races, maybe stronger than america in a race like skala.

link here:

https://www.utemagasinet.no/Aktuelt/skala-opp-2015

Killian beat easy Max King last year at mont blanc marathon and this year after fibula frature and 1 month of normal training he beat some of the best of the world including Sage and only after the middle of the race he push a bit because is uphill ( less impact =less stress on the leg) and put 30m on Sage!!!! ( I follow and like Sage...)

Is range isn't seen anywhere!

Sierra zinal is very fast, he beat marathoners somewhere 2:10...

The race u say he lost in skala he have some injure...

Sage says he was beated by some and ues he was and no one wins always but we need see the details.. Ex Hernando beat him at transvulcania but he was no training and almost wins to probably the best in the distante right now ( 3 time trail qorld champion!)

He wins more than 90% of his races, from 20k to 170k., and he races a lot not like Kipoche 2 marathons and maybe 2 half... Niche is marathon on roads although is more competitive i admit ( i admire Kipoche the best ever at marathon on roads...)

In the following year he beat Hernando...

Last year he run 21k on road but with 1500 meters in 1h30m!!

21k on road followed with 21k steep technical Killian beat Kipoche... Because running fast physical( both have), kipoche can put max 5m on Killian, the in second part is needed more techique and knowledge and Killian will put easy 10m on him.. So he wins with 5m no problem...Fact.

In street maybe he could do a marathon 2h10 so 7m slower than Kipoche the best ever on streets! ( he already beat Max 2h14 and some doped 2h10 marathoner last year at sierra zinal)...

Both are the best at distance but Killian has more range, races a lot more, during more years at top,..

Both are stars in and out of sport but Killian has the edge

I'm literally new here. I thought I'd post on this thread, but I have to say isn't Bekele the best runner in the world currently.

Thank you for this. Always good to learn facts and about rational likely race outcomes.

Obviously Killian is a great mountain athlete and he totally cleaned our clocks this year again at the Mont Blanc Marathon (I got beat by a lot of guys...the depth in this race is much closer compared to most US trail-mountain races...I kind of ran like crap but I have no excuses), but he certainly dd not put "30-minutes" on me. - Or did you mean 30 meters? I'm going to assume you meant 30 meters as usually "m" would designate that? Yeah he can do that on a steep hill...this climb hits 30-40% grade and went I'm powerhiking and eating a gel these guys fly past be. There is a nice hill segment on Strava for that first big climb at the Mont Blanc marathon. I ran it about 1-min slower this year than I did last year (then again I went sub 61-min at MT. WA last year and only 63-min this year). Max King, Andy Wacker, Alex Varner and Pat Symth are some of the other top US guys that have run this race. Here is the segment:https://www.strava.com/segments/17363314?filter=overall For overall flat out climbing I think his teammates Remi and Stian. are better overall. However, Killian is extremely good at downhills..especially steep technical ones as well as any type of mountain running in general. It depends on the grade and trail conditions of an uphill though...as well as duration. For the record though, he does not have a faster time at Speedgoat compared to a lot of US guys....as well as the Pikes Peak Marathon.

For the record though, he does not have a faster time at Speedgoat compared to a lot of US guys....as well as the Pikes Peak Marathon.

The Pikes Peak Marathon? I believe only Carprenter has a faster time than Jornet at Pikes, but Carpenter had around ten tries at it vs only once for Jornet. Is it the same course as it was in the 80s & 90s?

Tony\ wrote:

Anton Krupicka is n.1

He's not even a runner. He's taken such poor care of his body he can barely bear any weight on his glass bones.

Let me know when he's beats an official ultra world record.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon

Well there's RICARDO MEJIA for one...ran 3:21 or so I think. A number of guys have run in the 3:30s too. Kilian ran 3:40. Granted he wasn't "pushed" but he only did the ascent in 2:16-2:18 or so. Remember Carpenter went up in 2:01 en route to his 3:16 which is ridiculous. Joe Gray has gone up in like 2:05-2:06, but just for the ascent. I won in 2:10 one year for just the Ascent. To come back down under 1:18 is nuts on that course when you are 7000'+ of climbing and 13.1+ miles in already. I don't know if the course is exactly the same or how it has changed over the years. There are probably more people in these races nowadays though. I'm not saying this to dismiss Kilian or anything [he always kicks by butt by a large margin in every mountain race i've been with him in!], but just to set the facts straight. Anyway he's supposed to come back this year for the Ascent (not 100% verified but what I heard). There will be more Euro guys at the race this year.

Pikes pikey's wrote:

For the record though, he does not have a faster time at Speedgoat compared to a lot of US guys....as well as the Pikes Peak Marathon.

The Pikes Peak Marathon? I believe only Carprenter has a faster time than Jornet at Pikes, but Carpenter had around ten tries at it vs only once for Jornet. Is it the same course as it was in the 80s & 90s?

Ah right. Thought you were talking about US guys only.

If Jornet does just the Ascent it will be very interesting.

Fine Americans only list. You realize these facts are very easy to find on the internet, right? List of Americans that have won and run faster than Kilian at Pikes Peak Marathon: STEVE GACHUPIN (3:39) RICK TRUJILLO (3:31) CHRIS G REVELEY (3:39) AL WAQUIE (3:26) CREIGHTON J KING (3:39) WESLEY SMITH (3:39) MATT CARPENTER (3:16)

Yes, Killian is great, but when I saw the results of Mt. Blanc, I was like, "well, he keeps racing the same ol' dudes.." there is no fresh talent. He always races Marc and Stian, etc., nothing new and it's an aging white group of runners. He knows how to beat these guys. It was like when I ran in college, I knew how to beat my peers ,even if I wasn't in great shape. I know their weaknesses and strengths and how to prevail. Impressive for Kilian to return and win, but geez, get some new talent, please!

U were right, no 30 minutes but 18 minutes!( i was partialy wrong...)

Salomon make an wonderfull live of the race and half way u were in front ( maybe 30 meters) of Killian right!?

So, in 20k, he put in "u" 18m35s:

Killian 3h54m54s

Sage. 4h13m29s

Dif. 18m35s

U too were wrong because killian put to the second place like 800 meters.( 4minutes..)

Yours 18 minutes equals to more than 3km back when killian finished (more or less..)

Also if Stian is better on flat, why he can't put some time on the first part of the race that is fast and flat; on a guy that comes from a bad injury and with little training?

S. Canaday wrote:

Fine Americans only list. You realize these facts are very easy to find on the internet, right?

List of Americans that have won and run faster than Kilian at Pikes Peak Marathon:

STEVE GACHUPIN (3:39)

RICK TRUJILLO (3:31)

CHRIS G REVELEY (3:39)

AL WAQUIE (3:26)

CREIGHTON J KING (3:39)

WESLEY SMITH (3:39)

MATT CARPENTER (3:16)

Pikes pikey's wrote:

Ah right. Thought you were talking about US guys only.

If Jornet does just the Ascent it will be very interesting.

Apparently hard if you're not looking for them. Had actually not bothered to look into the results prior to the mid-80s thinking it was only going to get slower. Especially with much fewer participants and the sport of mountain running not as visible as it is now. Boy was I wrong! Stunned that there were times in that era that there were 6-9 finishers under 4 hours. I guess it correlates with the much more numerous 2:10-2:20 marathon performers of the time. Seems we are getting slower overall rather than faster.

S. Canaday wrote:

I don't know if the course is exactly the same or how it has changed over the years. There are probably more people in these races nowadays though.

The course has been unchanged since 1976.

The number of runners in the Ascent hasn't changed significantly in many years. As I recall, the limit for the Ascent was set at 1,800 in the 1980s, although I believe that the actual number may have approached 2,000 in some years, and it was possible to register right up until race day. There were no wave starts, and there was no prize money whatsoever. There were, however, a fair number of good runners, not just mountain specialists, who might show up in any given year. In 1982, for example, Pat Porter came up from Alamosa to win in 2:12, about three months before winning the national cross-country championship. In 1985, Marty Froelick, after running a low 2:11 marathon in Houston, ran 2:11 for second place in the Ascent, behind mountain specialist Al Waquie (who, at the time, held the Ascent and Marathon records of 2:05:46 and 3:26:17 from 1981). A number of us were sub-2:20 marathoners who simply ran the Ascent in the course of training for road races. I even remember a certain young 1500-meter runner who boldly announced his intent to destroy the Ascent record, and led the race for quite a ways against a good field before cracking badly. (He ran 3:39 at the Olympic trials the following year.)

The Pikes Peak Marathon was more of a mountain specialist's race, if ony because the risk of injury in the descent was not worth it for those whose focus was on road-racing, track, or cross-country. But it still had some excellent runners, including Ricardo Mejia (2:05:04 ascent en route to 3:21:32 finish) and Martin Rodriguez (2:04:51 ascent en route to 3:26:28 finish). Of course, beginning in the late 1980s, Matt Carpenter was frequently the winner of either the Ascent or Marathon (or both), and as the Pikes Peak races became less competitive in later years, he often had no serious challengers.

Kilian Jornet's performance in 2012 (2:18:45 ascent en route to 3:40:26 finish) was, at best, very mediocre. He may be a great mountain runner, but he surely didn't show that on Pikes Peak.