Why is 6:40 pace so comfortable?

Bakugo wrote:

I’m an 800 runner and I’m not in great shape nor am I running any significant mileage. But for some reason when I go on my runs alone or with friends I can’t help but run 7:30 or faster per mile. When I try to go “easy” or friends tell me to slow down it feels like I’m almost stumbling if it’s anything over 8 minute pace. When I open up and get comfortable I always cruise at 6:40 pace. And it always feels good... until I hit my second mile. Anybody else have his experience? I’m 6’3” btw... but I’ve know shorter runners who experience this too.

Most of these posters are long distance runners.

You DO want to increase your mileage and the length of your long run, but *gradually*. But your strength is in your "easy" speed, so don't just give that away and become a slogger like the rest of us.

For instance, you could do an hour long run as 3 x 20 minutes @ 7:20 pace with a 2 minute walk break in between. That way you can get some good aerobic work, not overtax yourself (this still does need to feel easy), and run a pace that feels reasonable to you. And it's absolutely reasonable to sometimes do what "should" be 6 miles at 8:00 pace instead as 3 miles at 7:00 pace.

Mileage is really important in distance running, but

1) You aren't a distance runner

2) Even if you were, you can't force yourself into our sort of training right away.

So keep working at it, but most important is to take advantage of your strengths.

Bakugo wrote:

I’m an 800 runner and I’m not in great shape nor am I running any significant mileage. But for some reason when I go on my runs alone or with friends I can’t help but run 7:30 or faster per mile. When I try to go “easy” or friends tell me to slow down it feels like I’m almost stumbling if it’s anything over 8 minute pace. When I open up and get comfortable I always cruise at 6:40 pace. And it always feels good... until I hit my second mile. Anybody else have his experience? I’m 6’3” btw... but I’ve know shorter runners who experience this too.

"hey guys i'm not in great shape but i crush everyone but i crush everyone in workouts. why is that?"

If you have trouble running an easy pace, try running 6x1000m repeats at 6:40 pace, and 800m recovery jogs in between. This way you've got the mileage and the speed, but it's still an easy workout.

Mileage = 2k warming up + 6k repeats + 4k recovery jogs + 2k cooling down = 14k = 9 miles.

I mean 6:40 per mile, so 4:10 per 1k rep.

Hi Bakugo.

Let me try and see if I can get where you're coming from. Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, I dont mean to and I'm only trying to help.

When you go out and run easy at 6.40 for a mile, it's likely you're full of oxygen (legs and lungs) and aren't feeling it aerobically until miles 3+ appx. If you are getting tired, then it's not easy to your body somewhere (legs or lungs, most likely lungs) even though it felt good to begin with. So why would your body allow you to go out at a pace that you can't sustain when you knew (and hence your body knew) that you wanted to run for say 60 mins.

Short Answer: Your body doesnt know what it needs. It's telling you lies.

Long Answer: There is a theory that with running, your body knows best and should always be listened to. That's wrong. What I can see is that mentally you're strong. The thought of doing 6.40 easy for 60mins doesn't scare you, even though your body can't handle the pace. That's a good thing. Mental toughness is important and that easy pace would intimidate some people. What I've found is that your body(all our bodies) doesn't/don't care about the future. It doesn't care about how you'll feel in 45 mins from now. It only cares about now. So it tells you 6.40 is easy. And it is. For now. Then 1min,2min etc... and then you blow up. I don't know WHY it does that but it does. I think it's the answer to that WHY that you're looking for here. It's an answer I don't think you'll get here but I dont think the answer to it matters. Although I understand you may still want it. I certainly don't have an answer but I do have a way forward.

'Run easy' means different things to different people. For you it doesn't mean 6.40. Try 7.40 for an hour. Maybe 8 mins. Maybe more (8.30 or slower). It's getting hard early for you because you may be racing your 800m in say 2 mins-2.20 and feel ok-ish (4.40ish/mile pace). It feels ok because you're trained for that speed. 6.40 feels hard because you aren't trained for that (relatively slower) speed. So train what you don't have. You train for 6.40 (in your case) by running to it not from it. Eg. start at 7.40 and work down over some months. Not start at 6.40 and extend it. If you're tiring at 3 miles odd or a bit sooner then 6.40 is significantly faster than what you're capable right now but no indication of what your ceiling may be, how fast you can go.

Better advice can be given with more info (PB's, distance run?week,years running etc.). Let it suffice to say that 6.40 and tiring say after 3 miles implies say a 19min 5k currently and 6.40 is not easy for you for a long-ish run, no matter what your body tries to tell you. So govern your body with the knowledge that is avail. on these boards.

My only othe point is to find your max. aerobic pace, say via heartrate. As you point out, you can run for 9 mins,10 mins or more/mile and find it easy and it would all be Aerobic. It would all be easy. The gains though, at that speed, as you correctly suspect, would be limited. You want to run as fast as you can in the easy range,at the limit, when you find it. Then bring that down over time. I do feel though, that it'd be around 8 minute miling, maybe quicker,maybe slower but not by much. +/- 15 secs say.

Hope I helped you and if not you then someone.

I think the answer is as simple as your top end speed is much faster than 6:40 pace, so it feels really easy to start.

Bakugo wrote:

I’m an 800 runner and I’m not in great shape nor am I running any significant mileage. But for some reason when I go on my runs alone or with friends I can’t help but run 7:30 or faster per mile. When I try to go “easy” or friends tell me to slow down it feels like I’m almost stumbling if it’s anything over 8 minute pace. When I open up and get comfortable I always cruise at 6:40 pace. And it always feels good... until I hit my second mile. Anybody else have his experience? I’m 6’3” btw... but I’ve know shorter runners who experience this too.

I found sub 4 minute pace comfortable. Until I got to the 3/4 mile mark.

In fact, I found 3 minute mile comfortable. Until I got to the 350 m mark.

I found 2 minute 30 mile pace comfortable. Until I hit 300 m

I think this is the key for you Bakugo - you may not have spent enough time doing easy running. Once you build your weekly mileage and get into a consistent pattern of running, you will have to slow down on days between workouts to recover. Otherwise, you will get injured. However, you have to ask yourself if this type of "easy" running is the best way for you to train for the 800m. I ran the 800m from a distance background and ran 60-70 mpw. Other guys on the team ran the 800m from a sprint background and would have never been able to do the "easy" runs we did. Can I ask what your current 800m fitness is? For 6:40 pace to truly be "easy," I would expect you to be in sub-2:00 shape.

BHViking wrote:

I experienced what you are describing as I was beginning to train for my first marathon. The way that I fixed the problem was by first purchasing a heart rate monitor. Then, I did a test at the track that I found online to estimate Max-HR and then did several weeks of exclusively running at about 70% or less of the Max-HR estimate. At first it was excruciatingly slow. Well over 9 minutes per mile. Over time, the pace came around to be less of a jog and more of a run but required a lot of patience.

Forgive me if someone already provided an answer, I didn't read through everything.

I read a research paper a few years ago which I am too lazy to look up right now. The basic findings were that as you speed up you actually become more efficient mechanically up until you hit a certain pace, at which point your mechanical efficiency decreases. So, running faster feels more comfortable even though it is actually harder aerobically.

It sounds like 6:40 pace is the sweet spot for you mechanically, you just aren't in good enough shape to maintain it. Hope this helps.

crumpet wrote:

I found 2 minute 30 mile pace comfortable. Until I hit 300 m

OK, man...

Bakugo wrote:

I’m an 800 runner and I’m not in great shape nor am I running any significant mileage. But for some reason when I go on my runs alone or with friends I can’t help but run 7:30 or faster per mile. When I try to go “easy” or friends tell me to slow down it feels like I’m almost stumbling if it’s anything over 8 minute pace. When I open up and get comfortable I always cruise at 6:40 pace. And it always feels good... until I hit my second mile. Anybody else have his experience? I’m 6’3” btw... but I’ve know shorter runners who experience this too.

If it stops feeling good after the second mile is it really easy? Maybe you want to run faster because as an 800 runner you're full of EXPLOSIVE power? You'll need to tone things down if you want to beat Deku in the long run. :p

OP, I understand what you are saying and am in a similar boat. 800 runner, used to be pretty fast (1:52 HS), big guy. 800 pace is fast, 6:40 pace is a walk in the park in comparison. But we crash and burn if we try to sustain that for an hour. Especially me now because I am coming back from a multi-year layoff, am heavier, etc.

I know what it is like to run fast, but can't hang for long at my current fitness level. Nonetheless I find the urge to head out on runs at 6:40 pace. Anything slower feels like plodding, or worse yet a boring waste of time. Even if I try to run slow I end up "racing" myself and picking up speed until I crash and burn.

That said, we know that easy running is valuable, and it is especially valuable for someone like me and you to run a slower pace to develop fitness and also avoid injury. While I still get in my shorter 6:40 pace runs here and there, I make a point to run my longer ones with people that run slower than me (either less ability, or are better at self-limiting pace on a long run). When running with others I get lost in conversation and forget that I am plodding around at say 8:30 pace. It really works.

Honestly, use it as an opportunity to learn. But do try and not go out quite that fast.

I still dont get it....

6:40/mi pace is what? HMP at best for a competent runner? 10k pace if you're 55+?

OP declares 6:40/mi pace yet runs out of gas in mile 2 at this point?

I remain perturbed in this thread, and every single followup post from OP has only made it worse.

He doesn't know what an easy pace is, but is running around at his 5K pace or something and declaring that 'easy', yet fades after 5-10 minutes of doing such a thing [yet still insists that pace is 'easy', as he is some 800 runner or something and somehow that makes a difference]

can we start over?

Runners have gears. No reason to be surprised 6:40 pace might feel more comfortable than 7:40 pace. This is especially the case with middle distance runners with relatively better speed than stamina.

Everything posted that says you should be able to run hours at an easy pace

ignores far more fundamental individual factors, stage of progression in training, bio-banding developmental considerations and muscle fiber type qualities.

Biomechanics student wrote:

Forgive me if someone already provided an answer, I didn't read through everything.

I read a research paper a few years ago which I am too lazy to look up right now. The basic findings were that as you speed up you actually become more efficient mechanically up until you hit a certain pace, at which point your mechanical efficiency decreases. So, running faster feels more comfortable even though it is actually harder aerobically.

It sounds like 6:40 pace is the sweet spot for you mechanically, you just aren't in good enough shape to maintain it. Hope this helps.

This!!!

I get where you're coming from, and I can tell that you're sincere.

I think you just need to take to heart John Kellogg's advice that you need to start off easy and remain at a palpably easy pace a little longer than you feel you ought to.

You lack a certain amount of self-discipline. It's not sin. We've all been there. You're just opening it up too quickly. What you write above pretty much says that.

So you need to make a conscious experiment next time you go out for a run. You need to hold back a little. Not a lot, but a little. And you need to cultivate THAT feeling: the feeling of holding back a little.

I do this every time I take a long run of 10-14 miles. It's much easier to manifest this sort of discipline if you take out-and-back runs on a straight flat course, as I've done for many years. You know you'll have the "back" stretch in which to lay it all on the line. That can help you hold back on the "out" leg.

When you ration your power in that way, you'll make the eye-opening discovery that if you risk holding back for the first half, you can increase your effort and speed in a hugely gratifying way on the way back home. You'll experience a power that you didn't know you had in you.

Those are the runs that really train you. Running out of gas too early is always a sign that you refused to exercise self-discipline early on.

6.40 should never be "Comfortable" and certainly that pace is not maintainable for any appreciable distance beyond the next hundred meters or even less.

You stack up at #3 ALLTIME PERFORMER and tied #6 ALLTIME PERFORMANCE with that time, check it out:

Rank Mark Competitor DOB Nat Pos Venue Date

1 6.34 Christian COLEMAN 06 MAR 1996 USA USA 1 Albuquerque, NM (USA) 18 FEB 2018

2 6.37 Christian COLEMAN 06 MAR 1996 USA USA 1 Clemson, SC (USA) 19 JAN 2018

2 6.37 Christian COLEMAN 06 MAR 1996 USA USA 1 Birmingham (GBR) 03 MAR 2018

4 6.39 Maurice GREENE 23 JUL 1974 USA USA 1 Madrid (ESP) 03 FEB 1998

4 6.39 Maurice GREENE 23 JUL 1974 USA USA 1sf Atlanta, GA (USA) 03 MAR 2001

6= 6.40 Maurice GREENE 23 JUL 1974 USA USA sf Atlanta, GA (USA) 27 FEB 1999

6= 6.40 @ BAKUGO xx zzz yyyy LRC USA sf meet unknown xx APR 2018

Very much this (imho), due to his height.

Pappy wrote:

Biomechanics student wrote:

Forgive me if someone already provided an answer, I didn't read through everything.

I read a research paper a few years ago which I am too lazy to look up right now. The basic findings were that as you speed up you actually become more efficient mechanically up until you hit a certain pace, at which point your mechanical efficiency decreases. So, running faster feels more comfortable even though it is actually harder aerobically.

It sounds like 6:40 pace is the sweet spot for you mechanically, you just aren't in good enough shape to maintain it. Hope this helps.

This!!!