Why the doping / Rupp hate?

The OPs English is so good I was questioning whether he was just trolling. However I can confirm he is posting from an Eastern European ip.

As for Galen I don't buy the poster's inherent assumption that people automatically should root for people from their home country. It probably is by and large the case In Olympic sports but it's not the case universally and I think especially in bigger countries with a lot of success people may evaluate their stars on other factors outside of just success.

So I could choose to root for Usain Bolt to beat the American 100men just like some soccer fans from Spain may root against Spanish clubs in international competitions.

Thus some Americans may not want to root for Galen for whatever reason but in particular some of the practices outlined above or the lack of candor from their group. It's sport and rooting for or against someone is part of it.

Wejo, I appreciate your complement on my language. I've spent just too much time here on LRC sucking up LRCian language :) Jokes aside, almost 30 years have passed since our Independence from Soviet rule so our english has improved consideribly (especially with arrival of Internet in 2000s).

No, I don't think that people should automatically root for athletes from their country but it certainly seems strange when they're not. Especially when we are seing world class superstar being tossed around the board constantly. I have followed these Rupp-hate threads for some time now, but I really can't connect the dots what is the real reason for this hate apart from the anecdotal creme and injection stories (not because it shouldnt be done but because it's nonsence in the whole context of global doping machinery that is going on).

I mean, you hate the guy because he does whatever is allowed within rules to be up there with guys who might not be following any rules at all.

For example:

Go LetsRun.com

Oh yeah.

You're missing the part that people like picking on people who are awkward or dorky, and then find reasons not to like them. If Rupp came off as Lebron, there would be a lot less criticism. I don't think it's fair, but that's the way it is in life.

I believe this is true.

Mr. Rupp is the type of guy that, in the 8th grade, would have his books knocked out of his hands while he was carrying them between classes in the hallway.

People want to bully others who start to achieve success in order to bring the guy back down to the level of mediocrity where most everybody resides.

Why won't he just name the country where he's from? So annoying.

El Keniano wrote:

Why won't he just name the country where he's from? So annoying.

I'll give you a hint.

POTUS hosted our president at the White House just two days ago.

D-r-oPED wrote:

I'll give you a hint.

POTUS hosted our president at the White House just two days ago.

I guess that narrows it down to three.

Here's my two Lats, Litas and Kroons worth. Doping is obviously a problem and I am all for eliminating it whether it be state run, team run or just individuals doing it in their basement with stuff bought from some guy in the gym. In the 70's and 80's it was state run with both the Soviet Union and the USA carrying out doping programs. In the Soviet Union it was fully state run whereas in the US it was more don't tell us what you are doing so we won't catch you. Prior to the LA Olympics in 1984 the US drug testers went around testing potential medalists unofficially to see if they would be caught at a real test. Apparently many would but the advanced warning gave coached time to adjust dosages etc so they would pass. Even so I believe something like six medalists tested positive on the last day (relays) of the Olympics but fortunately the list correlating sample numbers to athlete's names was lost so nobody was disqualified.

Following the fall of the Soviet Union and a general feeling in the west that all athletes were cheating, and hence a drop in public interest. Track and Field cleaned up its act and we seemed to move into an era where cheats were on their own and nobody would cover for them if they got caught. In the 90's and 2000's cycling became the main focus of cheating where the drug programs were run by the teams with team doctors controlling the dosage and team management and lawyers dealing with the pesky authorities. This era was typified by Lance Armstrong and his team. Basically anyone who dared suggesting cheating was hit by the full publicity and legal force from the team. The fall of Lance Armstrong and the arrival of pacts such as the MPCC brought about a change. Membership in the MPCC is voluntary and its rules go above and beyond those of the WADA code-bound UCI: a rider cannot avail of a TUE and race, while they also carry out regular cortisol testing - low levels being potentially indicative of fatigue or possible cortisone use. MPCC rules require teams to withdraw a rider with low cortisol from racing. There were cases of riders in MPCC teams being caught doping and they were unceremoniously dumped by the team. No excuses, no second chances. At that point it looked like teams were getting out of doping programs and it was now just the rouge individual who was doping.

However, Team Sky never joined MPCC and now they appear to be using every loophole in the book to dope to the legal limit. A lot of cycling supporters are disgusted as it seems the sport is going backwards, teams are again running doping programs. In Track and Field the NOP of Alberto Salazar has a similar air about it. Whether it be called finding loop holes or operating in the grey areas, NOP comes across as an organisation that sees the rule book has an obstacle to be overcome rather than a standard to be respected by the letter and by the spirit. If the rumours about NOP are true then the sport is going backwards. If the developed countries allow teams to bend the rules into a pretzel then it is no wonder that under developed nations, whose only fame comes from elite runners, will start turning a blind eye to what goes on as they will just see it as re-leveling the playing field.

In my opinion the West has to take leadership.

D-r-oPED wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Why won't he just name the country where he's from? So annoying.

I'll give you a hint.

POTUS hosted our president at the White House just two days ago.

So one of the Baltic countries? All three are lovely and I don't understand why you would be secretive about where you're from. Not to derail this thread but you folks can't be too thrilled with an American president that has such an obvious crush on the Russian president.

Regarding your post about Rupp, I have asked the same question several times here, last time when he won Chicago. Why would they be so critical of their best distance runner? Especially considering how enamoured they are with Evan Jager? But I do get that who Rupp associates with makes him a target. It's pretty well known that Alberto Salazar and NOP have been splitting hairs and pushing boundaries as to what's legal. That, rightly or wrongly, makes him a target.

For the record, I think Galen Rupp is very impressive and he's the standout favourite to win Boston.

People hate Rupp because he just reinforces the dorky/nerd runner stereotype that we all endured in high school. He is funny looking, socially awkward and a rich kid. We all fantasize about the top US runners being Prefontaine reincarnated. A ruggedly handsome guy who is full of quotes that burst with machismo. We think that if the top US runners are like that, the HS XC kids will no longer get picked on by the football players and will suddenly get all the hot girls. That is why Evan Jager gets a pass on any suspicion of doping even though his accomplishments are on par with Rupp's. Jager is the stud boy that we want to be the representative of our sport not the dorky guy with no chin who is named Galen who has bad allergies.

The doping allegations just confirm the stud v. dork bias. When Lance Armstrong was embroiled in doping allegations, his fans did not flinch. Rupp's doping problems are more a question of pushing boundaries and not open and flagrant abuse of banned substances. But the allegations give the Rupp haters an excuse to trash his accomplishments and hope for a studly runner to replace him.

All in all it is about our insecurities as participants in a sport that has faded from the mainstream. We can achieve amazing things through hard work that the vast majority of athletes in other sports cannot come close to replicating. But we are forever having to defend our sport because distance running is always seen as where people go who are too short for basketball, to light for football and not coordinated enough for soccer.

Like with any professional athlete, there are a lot more factors that go into how passionately I cheer for them than just nationality and ability. As arrogant as it sounds, in America we are fortunate to have a lot of track and field participants with similar credentials as Rupp. So other considerations, such as personality and associations, come into play. I'm not ready to accept the fact that all medalists are skirting the rules somehow, like you seem to have accepted. Call me naive if you will, but that's where I'm at.

There's no way to prove this, but I don't think Rupp would be universally popular here even if it could be proven beyond a doubt that he's clean. There were never any real serious allegations made that Ryan Hall was using PEDs but he had plenty of severe critics here. You could go on for a very long time speculating as to why that's the case and why someone like Jager is largely exempt from that sort of criticism but the quickest and simplest explanation is that some people are just more appealing than others are.

The point of your post seems to be that because someone like Rupp has to compete with dopers we should not be bothered if it turns out he's doping himself because he can't be competitive any other way. Am I following you? That was Lance Armstrong's explanation. Logically then, you're saying it's okay to cheat if people you're competing against are also cheating. Yet you also say you're all for a clean sport and fair play. How do you get fair play and a clean sport if you're excusing cheating?

Now let's assume that Rupp is doping, I'm not saying he is or isn't but let's say he is for the sake of argument, and that it's okay because he's got to compete against doped foreign athletes. But Rupp also is competing with US athletes for prize money, berths on national teams, and so on. If I want to run the 2020 Olympic Marathon Rupp is one of the people I might need to beat. He's doping, at least in this example. So it must be okay for me to dope as well and for people needing to beat me to do it too.

But I don't want to dope. There are long term health risks involved. There's the possibility of being caught and suspended from competition for at least two years. If I'm a professional that means two years of not being able to make a living from my profession. It means I'll always be called out as a cheater when and if I do return to the sport. And maybe I just have some moral scruples against cheating. So I'm forced to choose between doing something that I know is wrong and risky or conceding a huge advantage to my competitors who don't share, or at least act on, those reservations. I shouldn't have to do that.

I'm not taking position on who among US athletes is clean and who isn't. But I'd rather see a clean US athlete finish 20th in an international competition than a doped one with a medal.

I don’t understand the Rupp hate either. Jealousy, I guess. I find his excellence inspiring. He’s clearly an outlier in terms of talent, but the dude puts in crazy work day after day, year after year. And he’s a remarkably fierce competitor — the only white American who’s not afraid to mix it up with the top Africans. All the more impressive that he performs so well in the face of intense criticism.

Afrer Rupp, it will be a long time before we have another white American who’s legitimately world class at 10k and longer.

I am neither a Rupp hater or a Rupp fan. In fact I am a nobody hater and a nobody fan. I was a teenager in England during the 70's and was a passionate fan of Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft, Foster, Bedford etc. But during the 80's I became disillusioned due to the high probability that they may be not as clean as I hoped. The same thing for cycling in the 90's.

The result is, though I follow both sports I have no mental association with any of the athletes. I watch the sport for the performances and excitement but don't care about who won. Therefore I could not tell you who won the Giro or Paris-Roubaix last year, or who won the London or Berlin Marathons. I don't know who holds the mile record or the record for the fastest climb of Mont Ventoux. I will watch the Boston and London Marathons this month but by June I will have forgotten who won. Unless it's Rupp, in which case it will be mentioned daily on these boards.

TVC15. wrote:

I believe this is true.

Mr. Rupp is the type of guy that, in the 8th grade, would have his books knocked out of his hands while he was carrying them between classes in the hallway.

People want to bully others who start to achieve success in order to bring the guy back down to the level of mediocrity where most everybody resides.

Rupp was 14 years old when Salazar discovered him. He was not a running success when he was in the 8th grade.

I think that some of it is because they see the advantages that Galen had by being discovered by Alberto Salazar and see that as cheating. or have some kind of unfair advantage. This is the problem that some untalented people have with talent and being jealous.

Many here seem to "hate" Rupp because he never really competed like a normal high school or college runner. He had his own coach, his own doctors, his own "rupp-certified" racing schedule from day 1, all focused on him. On the other hand, middle-aged road warriors seem to love Rupp because they also compete this way. When you see news or social media pieces about Rupp, the most positive comments look like they're from middle-aged triathlete guys.

El Keniano wrote:

D-r-oPED wrote:

I'll give you a hint.

POTUS hosted our president at the White House just two days ago.

So one of the Baltic countries? All three are lovely and I don't understand why you would be secretive about where you're from. Not to derail this thread but you folks can't be too thrilled with an American president that has such an obvious crush on the Russian president.

Yes, one of the Baltic countries, Latvia to be precise (and yes, you guys were classically outplayed in those last President elections by Team Vlad, personally I thought it's game over, thankfully your Congress is still there). Actually I didn't want to be secretive in the first place, I just didn't thought that anyone would ever be interested in that. I mentioned that I come from Eastern Europe only to emphasize that my opinion about Rupp is based from a distance. I don't know much about Rupp's background or NOP in detail. Just were wondering what the hell Rupp has done wrong).

This was a nice breakdown. Now I see where this Rupp-hate might be coming from.