Minimum mileage to RESPECT THE DISTANCE: 5k: 70 mpw, 10k: 80 mpw, marathon: 90 mpw.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

an honest assessment wrote:

5k: 70 mpw ..No exceptions.

How about these exceptions of guys who all ran under 13:15 running (for the majority of the weeks leading up to such performances) less than your "MINIMUM mileage" standard:

Doug Padilla

Jim Spivey

Alan Webb

Bernard Lagat

Just off the top of my head. All ran in the 60's mpw range while training for 5k. Some less.

I trained with Doug Padilla back in the 80's. I doubt he ever ran 60 mpw. He was definitely in the realm of "some less"! We used to joke about his low mileage. He was probably doing 35-40 mpw tops. He did do a lot of speedwork with 400m-800m repeats but most of it was high quality, low volume.

Wow this is an obnoxious post. Different things work for different people. Coaches who say "no exceptions" in regard to training are usually the ones with the most injuries

Kvothe wrote:

[quote]Knightinshiningarmor wrote:

Doesn't Justyn Knight run like 30 miles a week? I think you can get away with it if you run all quality and are insanely talented.

There are exceptions to every rule, but I think this thread is meant for the average to good college athlete, not the best of the best.[/quote

Unlesss you enjoyt the training is diebles etc seems a but over the top to be doing 100mpw to be average.

I knew a guy ran 40-50 now ran 8:44 steeplechase. I didn't see much point doing twice that he'd still have beat me.

You are right about what you are saying, in that these guys all ran fast on low mileage, but...

Padilla never ran under 13:15 -- he ran 13:15, 13:16., 13:17, 13:18 and 13:20 and more

Spivey never ran under 13:15 -- he ran 13:15, 13:19., 13:24, 13:25 and 13:26 and more

Alan Webb ran under 13:30 just once for 13:10.86

Lagat ran under 13:00-flat 6 times (a record for an American) and holds the AR and ran under 13:15 a whopping 17 times.

an honest assessment wrote:

johnny bean wrote:

what does "respect the distance" mean?

I would say a decent mileage for marathon is around 80, and 10k is about 60. however, the 5k is a different distance for some people and a person can perform well off lower mileage. 3.1 miles isn't exactly a distance that needs to be "respected."

sub-15 can be achieved off 40 mpw.

Decent times can sometimes be run without showing the distance any respect.

In each case, if those athletes learned to RESPECT THE DISTANCE, they would run faster. Even Lagat did 70 to 85 for his best 5Ks.

And yes, 120 for the marathon is a lot better than 90... these are minimums.

Here is the training plan I used before my first marathon:

In the last five weeks leading up to my first marathon , I had weekly mileages of 100, 84, 71, 71 and 100 ( = 85 miles per week average).

Here is a section from my training diary relating to the details of the final three weeks.

Monday 1st October 1984

(am). 8 miles in the rain, Park City, Utah

(pm). Another 8miles, a bit swifter than this morning. Pulse at 11.30am: 51. Finding that I am plodding but I can’t go any faster

Tuesday 2nd

(am). 7miles including 4 x 5mins (90secs recovery).

(pm). 8miles steady, not too bad and relaxed.

Wednesday 3rd

(am). 8miles steady. Still tired not getting much sleep. Stomach still sore (stitch). So, so tired; feel really wiped out all the time (pulse rate 51). Only session today.

Thursday 4th

(am). 8miles with 8 x 3mins (90 secs recovery). Hard session. Only session today.

Friday 5th

(am). 14miles steady. Felt quite good. Did it in 90mins.

Saturday 6th

(am). 10miles including 16 x 1min (1min recovery) but can’t tell if I am moving fast because it is so hard.

(pm). 8miles nice and steady feeling better now. I hope it’s going to stay with me. Don’t feel so worn out but still can’t sleep very well.

Sunday 7th

(am). 16miles on my own. Went okay for 7000feet altitude so I can’t complain.

Monday 8th

(am). 10miles with 8 x 3mins (with 90secs recovery). Good session but its still hard to tell if I’m running fast.

Tuesday 9th

(am). 14miles, legs felt tired and weary. Did a little swimming after then had a Jacuzzi.

(pm). 4miles before tea, not too bad.

Wednesday 10th

(am). 8miles gentle, still feel weary, hope it doesn’t last. I can’t understand it.

(pm). 6miles steady and don’t really feel too bad now.

Thursday 11th

(am). 10miles with 12 x 2min ( 1minute recovery). Good hard session, still not satisfied.

(pm). Just did 6miles, nice and gentle. Feel like I am working hard but not running very fast.

Friday 12th

(am). 10miles steady. Not too bad. Wet, windy and snowy.

Saturday 13th

15km road race in El Paso. 2nd to Carlos Lopes. 43mins 29secs. Went okay.

Sunday 14th

A good 18miles in 2hours 20mins, quite hard, not fast but most of it at 8000-9000 feet. Legs were feeling tired from yesterday’s race. Pulse at 4pm: 42

Monday 15th

(am). 10miles gentle pace, not too bad but cold and snowy.

(pm). 8miles steady, very very cold, in snowstorm. Pulse at 11pm: 60.

Tuesday 16th

(am). 10miles including 10 x 2minutes with 1minute recovery, not eyeballs out, just good strides, cold and snowy.

(pm). 5miles steady, felt bloody knackered. Pulse at 7pm: 62

Wednesday 17th

45minutes steady, not too bad but a bit stiff. Flew to Chicago.

Thursday 18th

Another 40minutes steady, very wet and windy. Not too bad but still a little stiff.

Friday 19th

40minutes again, legs sore, chest heavy, confidence seeping away (must have a race soon).

Saturday 20th

Did about 4miles or so, legs not sore today. Come on tomorrow. Getting nervous.

Sunday 21st

Chicago Marathon: World Rest – 2:08:05

Great post.

All I'm saying is: Respect the distance.

Shy, with a genuine humility concealing a blazing inner furnace of determination, Jones (though he would never claim it) has somehow become a coach to rival Alberto Salazar in charisma, while they are polar opposites in attitude and celebrity.

“I make it simple,” Jones says. “No science, no heart monitors. None of it comes out of a book. Just running instinctively. I ran by the seat of my pants almost all the time, and you don't see that now. No worry about time. Competition was my clock.”

"I trained really hard and it paid off for me. I’ve always been physically very strong and done very physical work for a job. It paid off in the end. I didn’t need to go to the gym, I didn’t need to over-stretch. I didn’t need to cross-train or do yoga or anything like that. I ran without heart-rate monitors, without sports cords or yoga or chiropractors or physical therapists or massage therapists. For me, it was about getting up in the morning, running to work, running at lunchtime, go back to work and then run home from work. It’s that kind of mentality, but I knew every stride was helping me.

"Sometimes I’d be out there at midnight, doing 4 x 5 minutes on a country lane and all I could see was a little dot of a light at the end of the road. I would be charging down that street in the pitch black, and in my head, Carlos Lopes, Mike McLeod and Brendan Foster were on my shoulder. I just drove myself, mentally, as much as physically.

"There is no easy way. And that’s what all of these gadgets try to show you is some kind of easier way of training. But there isn’t one. I ran without heart-rate monitors, without sports cords or yoga or chiropractors or physical therapists or massage therapists. I’m a purist at heart. To me, it’s about having your running shoes on your front doorstep and putting them on and going out and running hard. It’s not about measuring how far you’re running, it’s not about checking your heart rate or drinking the right drinks and eating the right foods. All it’s doing is teaching runners to run within their limits so there is no ability to run to their pain threshold or several other thresholds.

"Distance running is all about stress and coping with stress. All these gadgets and gimmicks, they take the stress away from it. So when you’re in a race and you don’t have all that stuff on your arms or your pockets or your favorite drink, you don’t know how to cope. You miss your first water stop and you think, “Oh my god, my race is screwed.” But it’s not, you’ve still got eight more water stops to get to. It’s just different to what I was used to. Towards the end of my career, heart-rate monitors started to come in and special drinks too.

"I broke the world record on Mars bars and Diet Coke, so I’m a good argument against all of the other stuff."

Aww very romantic with a resemblance of a patina of a bygone era. It’s the 21st century, I’ll stick to the scientific methods. What’s next? Animal sacrificing in front of an altar to appease god?

Donyiyo wrote:

Aww very romantic with a resemblance of a patina of a bygone era. It’s the 21st century, I’ll stick to the scientific methods. What’s next? Animal sacrificing in front of an altar to appease god?

Yes, but the race itself hasn't changed. These days people have some sort of need to talk, blog, tweet about their complex training plans, watches, HIIT workouts, earbuds, or Strava garbage than actually putting time into getting faster.

...and it's not that hard.

You need to run harder and more often.

an honest assessment wrote:

Even Lagat did 70 to 85 for his best 5Ks.

No he didn’t.

Meanwhile, the Kenyans who train more like Jonesy did will win.

Also from Jonesy's interview:

"But the focus has changed and now there are absurd headlines, and I have to say, you are just as guilty, publishing articles like ‘5 Weeks to a Faster 5K’ or ’10 Weeks to a Marathon PR.’ It’s bullshit. "

Donyiyo wrote:

Aww very romantic with a resemblance of a patina of a bygone era. It’s the 21st century, I’ll stick to the scientific methods. What’s next? Animal sacrificing in front of an altar to appease god?

He still holds the British record. So all the runners who are indulging in fancy "scientific methods" are slower than him.

Before my sophomore year, I went straight from 0-70mpw in 4 months before joining the college track team. The results were err... mixed.

It was good in the respect that I didn't get injured, dropped a minute off my 5k PR in the pre-season and felt really good doing the long runs. Bad in the respect that my PR was only lowered to an 18:20, and that every race after was progressively slower, despite keeping up the training.

All levels of Runners just need 40-60 mpw to reach their potential at distances from 800m up to Marathon. Depends on the training system and who is the coach.

- The Magic Wizard Coach J.S -

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

All levels of Runners just need 40-60 mpw to reach their potential at distances from 800m up to Marathon. Depends on the training system and who is the coach.

- The Magic Wizard Coach J.S -

[quote]PortlandXCgirl wrote:

Only running 28% more distance to train for an event that’s 845% as long? Sad.

That makes more sense than this lady who runs 600 mpw to train for a marathon.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

All levels of Runners just need 40-60 mpw to reach their potential at distances from 800m up to Marathon. Depends on the training system and who is the coach.

- The Magic Wizard Coach J.S -

I was just about to ask what the hell I was doing running 55-60mpw for the 800 but never mind.