my brother thinks crunches are useless for runners

thats false wrote:

abs will get strong just from running wrote:

It's really more about injury prevention than directly strengthening muscles that are necessary for running. Everything from my low back pain to my achilles feels better when I do just a little bit of core work.

That's what works for me. Not gonna try to convince you, though.

the two of you are very stupid

one is correct though

put your elbows further forwards on the ground if the plank isn't making you feel anything

Imho, the lower back (multifidus/erector spinae) is significantly more important for runners. Check out muscle activation numbers for different areas of the core - one of the lower back muscles gets slammed and is close to redlining. I know that MVIC measurements are not an exact science, but it helps to elucidate. That being said, I don't do any core exercises.

https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/4878/4521

Nestle crunch is better for you wrote:

abs are for labs wrote:

Strong abs are not essential for running. And yes, they will get all the work they need while you are running, specificity.

The most important core muscles for runners are the hip flexors and psoas.

YES!!!

A good ab workout is running up a 15% incline for an hour!!

Incline only works if you are holding on for dear life.

abs will get strong just from running wrote:

It's really more about injury prevention than directly strengthening muscles that are necessary for running. Everything from my low back pain to my achilles feels better when I do just a little bit of core work.

That's what works for me. Not gonna try to convince you, though.

Hope you're not gonna try and teach me grammar either.

Crunch breaks every 200 and a plank at the finish wrote:

Both are useless. You will never need to do either in a race.

I hate these generic responses that some tool bag always throws out as to why you shouldn't do any ancillary work.

They are good at making you good at crunches.

Similar to push-ups and to running.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Crunch breaks every 200 and a plank at the finish wrote:

Both are useless. You will never need to do either in a race.

I hate these generic responses that some tool bag always throws out as to why you shouldn't do any ancillary work.

I hate these toolbags that throw out the word ancillary as if it pertains to running.

Using the word "useless" in most descriptions is as about as helpful as saying "definitely" in many scenarios. It's just counterproductive. Of course crunches are helpful for strengthening your core, which in turn is helpful in stabilizing your back (a strong core resists your body's temptation to roll forward when you get fatigued). The real questions are how much core exercise you should do and are crunches the most effective exercises?

Here is a link that summarizes 1 study's review of the most effective core exercises:

https://www.verywellfit.com/the-best-and-worst-ab-exercises-3120050

Naturally, doing ab exercises all day is not conducive to running anymore than overworking any other muscle. However, it would be ridiculous to think that a strong core doesn't help running. It helps with posture and stability as you start to fatigue which allows your momentum to continue forward as opposed to displacing momentum in directions other than the direction you are running in (waste of energy).

Useless or not, i'd rather have a well defined six pack than look like most of you anorexic losers. Does it help my running. Who knows. But at least I look damn good.

Yet the top runners generally wiggle and sway through the upper body at the end of races.

You don't lean and sway because your "core is tired" you lean and sway because your legs are tired and you compensate with your upper body.

Get fitter and you will not fall apart at the end of races.

sway back wrote:

You don't lean and sway because your "core is tired" you lean and sway because your legs are tired and you compensate with your upper body.

Get fitter and you will not fall apart at the end of races.

They're not mutually exclusive. Both are true. You compensate with your upper body even when your legs aren't tired. They are synchronized to balance each other. Both get tired when the muscles are taxed and any insufficiently "strong" muscle will be the first to buckle which will cause further reliance on the next muscle and so on. Pretty much why runners always complain of various muscles being sore after races besides the typical leg muscles (calves, quads). Working out your core is a part of getting fitter.

And responding to other person,~Of course professionals still lean and sway. Their muscles still have thresholds and above those they will start to fatigue. Obviously those limits are higher than the average joe, but these athletes are also running faster. All runners should do some low level of core work just as much as they should do mobility and balance work etc.

RandoCalrissian wrote:

Using the word "useless" in most descriptions is as about as helpful as saying "definitely" in many scenarios. It's just counterproductive.

However, it would be ridiculous to think that a strong core doesn't help running.

Are you saying it's definitely not useless?

Planks are useless once you can hold it for a few minutes . The real and only core exercise is push-ups.

Are you saying it's definitely not useless?[/quote]

Now you've got it!

Positive Contribution wrote:

Crunch breaks every 200 and a plank at the finish wrote:

Both are useless. You will never need to do either in a race.

I hate these generic responses that some tool bag always throws out as to why you shouldn't do any ancillary work.

On the contrary, that post is specific, to the point, and totally true. 'Ancilliary' work is OK if you enjoy it, but running is really all that's required.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Crunch breaks every 200 and a plank at the finish wrote:

Both are useless. You will never need to do either in a race.

I hate these generic responses that some tool bag always throws out as to why you shouldn't do any ancillary work.

"Ancillary work" is a term invented by lazy runners who did not want to run more miles. Dedicated runners run more miles if they have time to do any "ancillary work."

truthseakr wrote:

Strong abs are essential for runners. When you bring your legs back the abs are used.

Hang from an overhead bar, attach weights to your ankles and do leg raises, low reps (5-6)....

This works the lower abs....

Do these and half squats and you don't need anything else.

It's ok to do hanging leg raises but they primarily work the hip flexors.