Road Racing and Training Thread Week ending 3/4/2018

Congrats Smoove, very very fast. Wow

As a side topic, saw a couple other of your posts on the VP 4% vs Bostons... Which shoe did you wear, and if you wore the VPs, are you wearing them at Boston, and what are you impressions!?

Thanks

I am alive!!!! Want to talk about killer road DirtBag esque HM. 2200 feet gain and 1225-50 in the first 5 miles. Straight up. I was def reconsidering my choices the first half but finally got over the hump. Averaged 7:57. Will be curious to see some of the GAP paces the early miles. Was tough esp on no sleep and plenty of beer the night before. Ended up being an epically fun race that I won. Ran solo from miles 1.5-finish which was tough. Def was an experience. It was a lot of gain.

Congrats to Smoove and RRR to some great racing, two very distinct styles!!!

I admire both, the very structured approach to achieve maximum results and the somewhat structured approach interspersed with some seriously fun/bad/unwise/unusual decision making :)

hantph96 wrote:

Congrats to Smoove and RRR to some great racing, two very distinct styles!!!

I admire both, the very structured approach to achieve maximum results and the somewhat structured approach interspersed with some seriously fun/bad/unwise/unusual decision making :)

Smoove races great!! I was just screwing around...

Smoove - how does your race impact your decision on MP on Boston?

runrincerepeat wrote:

hantph96 wrote:

Congrats to Smoove and RRR to some great racing, two very distinct styles!!!

I admire both, the very structured approach to achieve maximum results and the somewhat structured approach interspersed with some seriously fun/bad/unwise/unusual decision making :)

Smoove races great!! I was just screwing around...

Smoove - how does your race impact your decision on MP on Boston?

And which shoes? If it was the 4%, did they impact the speed? Or just down to better weather and your current plan?

RRR - Big congrats to you, too. That must have been a difficult run. It will toughen you for future races.

I went with the 4%s today as I wanted to see if they were a viable option for Boston. I had a new pair of Adioses ready to go just in case.

The best thing I can say about the Vaporflys is hat at some point, I forgot that I was wearing them. When I tested them last month at my 4 miler, I couldn't help but to notice them because they were so unusual. They are undoubtedly the most cushioned shoe I've raced in.

Did they impact time? I'm not sure - if so, probably not by much. If you look at my Turkey Trot (15:41) and at my Houston Half, (1:11:04) today was relatively better than those days (days on which I wore an older pair of Adios), but not by a ton 15:27/1:10:52 per VDOT).

Comparing across races is hard to do in any event. This course had a huge hill at the 7 mile mark where Houston was flat, and i backed my mileage down some going into Houston whereas I should him 90 this week including 41 total this past Monday and Tuesday. On the other hand,I had more people near me for a higher percentage of the race today than in Houston and the weather was better today than both of those prior race days, but maybe only by a little.

So there are too many variables to be able to isolate any portion of that time improvement to the shoes. I guess some might say I don't want to give the shoes credit over my fitness, but the prior races are probably the most objective guide available.

In any event, no post-race calf issues, so that is reason enough for me to stick with the 4%s for Boston. Plus, I want that cushioning for the downhills.

I was really hoping you would say they were good for two minutes so I could justify buying some. Lol

How do you reconcile sitting around 90 mile weeks and not jumping to 100? Silly question but I'm someone that too often gets wrapped up in the numbers and am always, to a detriment, striving for the next level. There's so many times I have to step back and remind myself that 85 miles is still a great week even though it's not 90 or 100.

I sit here now at 62 miles this week so far with a pm Run looming and 20 on the plan for tomorrow. I should be ok with the idea that I can run 5 tonight and hit 85 this week but damn, that seems like a failure with 90 right there.

WH - I feel you i Also get caught up in trying to make it 80+ or whatever.

No lie there was a 65 year old guy at this race today w the 4%s on.

I go into each cycle asking myself what the most mileage I reasonably think I can handle is based on past experience.

Being a 50-60 mile a week college runner, 70-75 was the answer for my first marathon. Based on that, I decided I could handle 80-85 the next time around. I actually ran a little more some weeks for those first two cycles, with one 100 mile week during the second cycle. I'd never come close to that before and it was right there for the taking, so I went for it. And it almost broke me. It pushed me into an extended taper, which thankfully worked out, but lesson learned - I wasn't ready for that yet.

So for my third cycle, especially since I was coming off of a 4 month layoff after surgery, I set 80-85 as my goal and actually got up to 90.

So for this cycle I set 90 as my goal, thinking I might get to 100 if I was rolling well. Had a niggle or two, and the calf cramping thing resurfaced, so I decided not to push beyond the 90. In fact, I missed 90 for one of my three peak weeks this time because I had to take a day off for some ankle tendinitis. I need 17.5 to hit 90 tomorrow to close out my third and final peak week and anticipate getting it (knock on wood). Had it not cooled down here some, I would have actually lowered the peak goal to 80-85 as part of my war on cramping.

I think I can get away with lower volume than most people running my times, so I try not to let the numbers control me instead of me controlling the numbers. Given our nature as competitive runners and disproportionately Type A personalities, that's a hard thing to do and I don't always succeed, but I try to keep that in mind as a goal at least.

Maybe you should count on kilometers instead. When you think of it, 100 miles is an arbitrary number. We like it because it is a threshold. No reason why you couldn't establish a 150k per week threshold.

It's totally arbitrary but that doesn't make it any easier to dismiss. I suspect a lot of it comes from the realization that I'm someone that doesn't really have any inherent talent as a runner and volume combined with work is the only thing that gets me to mediocre. So in absence of that volume, as arbitrary it may be, there's no ability to fall back on talent to get through. I also think it has some roots I running ok at 80mpw, running better at 90mpw, so naturally 100mpw seems logical for more improvement.

Thanks Smoove, the lack of calf cramps seems to be good enough reasoning... So maybe it doesn't push you more than it just limits the impact so muscle damage is limited and thus allowing you to push harder? I just see everyone has them now, even now locally here in Orlando

Let me quote Without Limits,

"Talent is a myth"

Nah I actually don't believe that lol

Jeremy R wrote:

Let me quote Without Limits,

"Talent is a myth"

Nah I actually don't believe that lol

Ha! Exactly. Anyone with talent running my volume would have easily clicked 2:40s off their list long ago. I get frustrated when people say things like "you're talented" when all I've run is 2:50. Anyone can run that if they put in the work. Problem is most people don't want to run more than 40-50 mpw.

Congrats, Smoove, terrific performance! Really impressive.

RRR: I enjoyed reading your story, congrats to you too! Keep it up.

Smoooooove is mooooovin'!!!

That's one hell of a benchmark during a marathon buildup. I get so psyched up for you guys when I see performances like this. Just stellar.

RRR deserves a "standing o" as well!!! Not only did he see a questionable decision through to the end, he treated it as a opportunity to shine. Hell yes!

This message board is littered with winners... trippin' all ever 'em...

I posted this on the Molly Huddle / Gate River thread, but check out Smoove's Strava record of the race if you follow him. His 8th mile going up the Hart bridge in 5:24 was particularly impressive.