Yasso 800s - Bunk or Accurate Predictor of Marathon Time?

Worked pretty well for me, but I was barely a sub 3 guy.

I averaged 2:54 and ran 2:57 with a stop for side atitches and a slow start.

I did 10 x 800 at 2:40 with equal rest, as Mr. Yasso suggests. Maybe because I never do runs over 15 miles, or maybe because I'm not training for a marathon, there's no way I can run 2:40.

There are many better workouts to do for a marathon than 800s with long rests, which I wouldn't even do for a 10k.

bunk

A buddy did 3:05s and then ran a 3:03 PR, so it worked for him.

I tried a set of these a couple of years ago and could manage 2:36. I set out a little slower than 2:36 pace and still died a horrible death, splitting 1:18/1:27 with a closing 1.2 miles in 9 or 10 something.

I'm certain I could run the 800s at around 2:30-32 pace today, but I don't like my chances of a 2:30 marathon (ever, frankly). First, I'm not training for a marathon, and second, my shorter races (up to HM) don't indicate anything better than 2:37-8.

My personal feeling is the relationship between the 800s and marathon time depends first on your aerobic conditioning and overall proper marathon training, and second whether you're genetically inclined to shorter or longer races (ie. slow twitch versus fast twitch muscle type person).

I've done them and they seemed most effective at keeping me in 5k-8k shape during marathon training. There are better workouts and better predictors if you goal is the marathon - think longer duration and a pace closer to marathon pace.

A better indicator would be 20k, or 2 x 10k with a mile jog rest, at goal marathon pace. Finish that sucker feeling comfy like you know you could do another 10k at the same pace and you're likely good to go.

Pete wrote:

A better indicator would be 20k, or 2 x 10k with a mile jog rest, at goal marathon pace. Finish that sucker feeling comfy like you know you could do another 10k at the same pace and you're likely good to go.

At goal marathon pace? 2x10K at goal marathon pace will feel like a jog if you're in shape. Good practice, but I wouldn't consider 20K at that pace a good predictor of 42K at that pace. 2x10K at half mary pace maybe.

For me, it predicts faster than I have run a marathon.

However, my training has never been specific for that distance, so it's hard to guage.

I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation years ater the test was proposed if it didn't have at least SOME predicitve value...

Not quite bunk, but not quite accurate either.

The pace for the Yasso 800s corresponds pretty closely to Daniels' I pace. So, for example, if you're shooting for 2:40 and doing 800s in 2:40 Daniel's I pace is 1:20 per 400m.

However -- and this is why the Yasso 800s are not very good -- Daniels' says you should run 1000-1600m at this pace, and then have a recovery even to the work bout.

In short the trouble with the Yasso 800s as recommended (800 at goal marathon pace, with even recovery) is that the recoveries are too long.

Either make them into 1000-1600m reps at the same pace with even recovery, or run 800m with somewhat shorter recovery. For example, jog 300-400m after each 800m.

Folks--Wake up! Those Yasso 800s aren't supposed to be a predictor. They're supposed to be (Yasso's supposition) the extent of the speed training you'll need to run your goal marathon time.

So if you are doing all of the milage, long runs, tempo runs, etc, then a good guess at what kind of speed work would be appropriate would be the Yasso 800s.

I don't think that he ever espoused them as a marathon predictor. That would just be silly.

Sorry, not 800m at goal marathon pace, 800m in as many minutes and seconds as goal marathon in hours and minutes.

The best explanation I have ever had for the Y-800’s is that it tells you what you can’t do a marathon in, not what you can do it in. Make sense? For example, if you want to do a 3:00 marathon, and you can’t do the 800’s in 3:00, then you can’t do the marathon in 3:00. But if you can do the 800’s in 3:00 it is not a guarantee that you can do the marathon in 3:00. It has held true for me.

It's a bit like punching a 5k-10k time into a prediction chart. One would expect to be able to do those reps in the 8-10k race pace range. This would work fine, if it were not for the fact that 8k-10k ability is not a great predictor of marathon ability.

The bets predictor of marathon time is a prior marathon time.

Well put, Tyler. Same to Had Some Myself.

Tyler Durden wrote:

The best explanation I have ever had for the Y-800’s is that it tells you what you can’t do a marathon in, not what you can do it in. Make sense? For example, if you want to do a 3:00 marathon, and you can’t do the 800’s in 3:00, then you can’t do the marathon in 3:00. But if you can do the 800’s in 3:00 it is not a guarantee that you can do the marathon in 3:00. It has held true for me.

Basically, the Y800s are using 10k speed as the limiting factor for your marathon time, which isn't a perfect predictor because it happens to be a 42k race.

For that reason, I think that a lot of younger people coming up from 5/10k (me) find the "prediction" fast, and people with big aerobic development can run closer to the time.

Exactly, I can run 5 miles just under 30 minutes. So I assume doing yassos in 245-250 would be pretty easy. I'm also certain that I couldn't break 3 hours right now, as my longest run for the past year has been 12 miles.

A predictor IF you're training for a marathon.

It depends on whether you have natural speed or endurance.

I could easily bang out 8 or 10 sub 3 minute 800's with 90 second jogs between a couple years ago but could only manage about 3:12 marathons because I had not yet laid down a base. I upped the miles and switched to one and 2 mile intervals with 3 minute interval jogs and went sub 3 this year.

The Yassos might be just the thing for a runner with better natural endurance and poor 5k and 10k history. I know people who swear by them. If just before taper your Yasso sessions have predicted a time much better than the subsequent marathon, you need marathon pace runs and long repeats to learn to maintain pace/speed throughout the race. If you have already been running your marathons within 2 or 3 percent of your tempo pace, the Yassos may give you incresed turnover and economy if you don't already have shorter repeats in your schedule.

The Yasso 800's relationship is not strong for some runners, especially middle distance runners, and fairly good for long distance runners. I have a good solution for you. Warm up for two miles, run 10 miles as fast as possible, divide your time by 10 and then add 7% to that time. That will be very close to your marathon time. For example, if you time trial 10 miles in 60 minutes, divide it by 10 to get 6:00 pace per mile and then add 7% to get 6:25, then you can run a 2:48 marathon.

I only banged out 800s at 2:30 but ran under 2:20. The 800s felt very easy and I was able to recover from them quickly. Of course that wasn't the focus of my training as I preferred the Yasso 3 mile repeats at slightly slower than my marathon pace and rarely did any training faster than 5:00/mile. Of course I sucked at 5k and 10k but that wasn't what I was training for. Get to where 10 x 3 miles at marathon pace feels easy and you will run your marathon faster than marathon pace when you are fresh.

As previously posted, the Yassos will help your leg turnover and make you a more efficient runner but if you can't do the workout and feel like you could do 4-5 more easily then you went too hard and as far as the marathon is concerned you are probably spinning your wheels in training. It's not a matter of how fast you can do these workouts but how easy you can make them and complete your whole week with them.

Bunk, for most of us. Maybe if you are a 2:10-2:15 type, or a 4:00plus type, but otherwise it just does not seem to correspond.