rocker spaniel wrote:
If you liked Into Thin Air, rent "Meru" - probably the best alpine climb documentary I've ever seen.
Krakauer is a talking head in the movie.
Again, if anyone likes Thin Air, please pick up the book (not movie) "Touching the Void". I stayed up through the night reading it. Could not put it down. I never do that. If i had to write a book report it woudl be three words: Ho Lee Fuk
Others....
Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing
Annapurna, by Maurice Herzog
Touching The Void by Joe Simpson
THE WORST JOURNEY IN THE WORLD by Apsley Cherry-Garrard
I have enjoyed his books. The conclusion I have drawn from Into Thin Air is that the reward of summiting Everest cannot be justified by the risks that people take to get there. For every 14 or so people that summit Everest 1 person will die trying. It is a fact that all who undertake the endeavor need to understand. It is a pointless thing to die for in my opinion. As for as egomania is concerned, pretty much anyone who tries to climb Everest is an egomaniac. Kudos to him for surviving.
John Utah wrote:
Others....
Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing
Annapurna, by Maurice Herzog
Touching The Void by Joe Simpson
THE WORST JOURNEY IN THE WORLD by Apsley Cherry-Garrard
Thank you. I really appreciate the recommendations. I will definitely check them out. I am hooked! I watched "Meru" when it came out and loved it.
Anyone else have recommendations?
joedirt wrote:
I have enjoyed his books. The conclusion I have drawn from Into Thin Air is that the reward of summiting Everest cannot be justified by the risks that people take to get there. For every 14 or so people that summit Everest 1 person will die trying. It is a fact that all who undertake the endeavor need to understand. It is a pointless thing to die for in my opinion. As for as egomania is concerned, pretty much anyone who tries to climb Everest is an egomaniac. Kudos to him for surviving.
I used to feel that way but I don’t anymore. The only exception would be if you had children at home, which would be totally irresponsible.
Now that I think about it, the other exception would be if you are unprepared and are doing it for the wrong reason (i.e. if you don’t even like or care about mountain climbing, but are just doing it to show off) vs genuine love of the sport.
Base Camp Future wrote:.
Anyone else have recommendations?
K2: Triumph and Tragedy , Jim Curran. Account of the 1986 season on K2; guarantee you won't be able put it down.
Kurt Diemberger Omnibus
Boardman/Tasker Omnibus
Absolutely anything by Greg Child but especially his account of the climb of Gasherbrum IV
I truly love mountaineering literature; just about the best adventure reading there is. Also, second the nomination of 'Endurance'. Just beyond the pale; about 10 times during the read I found myself thinking "Ok, HERE is the part where I would have gone stark raving mad..."
Awesome HD video of the bottleneck on K2 by Dave Watson. Really remarkable quality and puts you right there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou3m2Ic4gFE
(And then he skied down K2 after almost reaching the summit)
I've seen the documentary on the 2008 K2 disaster. It was good, but I haven't read any of the books on the subject. Seemed much more cut and dry -- huge mistake of delays on summit and climbers not reaching the summit until up to 8pm! When a Serac crashed and cut the fixed lines in the bottleneck, now you have a technical descent, in the dark, after a long day.
It's mind boggling that such smart climbers could make such poor decisions.
One of the effects of extreme altitude is poor decision making, which is part of what fuels these controversies and the armchair second-guessing by those that weren't there.
Krakauer presents himself as a mountain authority or whatever, but he's just a journalist and amateur climber.
hypedupguy wrote:
Krakauer presents himself as a mountain authority or whatever, but he's just a journalist and amateur climber.
Your post shows you have absolutely no clue about the man; he may not have been one of the elite climbers out there but he was a serious alpinist in his younger day and has some hard routes to his name. Google 'Ham and Eggs' on the Moose's Tooth, or 'Jon Krakauer Solo Devils Thumb' which he recounts in his entertaining book 'Eiger Dreams'. He has been on some hard stuff with some damn good climbers.
Please do your homework, Mr Armchair, before you make a fool of yourself again, OK?
https://www.climbing.com/places/classic-climbs-the-mooses-tooth/climbers are a funny lot wrote:
Your post shows you have absolutely no clue about the man; he may not have been one of the elite climbers out there but he was a serious alpinist in his younger day and has some hard routes to his name. Google 'Ham and Eggs' on the Moose's Tooth, or 'Jon Krakauer Solo Devils Thumb' which he recounts in his entertaining book 'Eiger Dreams'. He has been on some hard stuff with some damn good climbers.
Please do your homework, Mr Armchair, before you make a fool of yourself again, OK?
Like I said, amateur climber. Get back to me when he solos K2 or Fitz Roy.
YMMV wrote:
One of the effects of extreme altitude is poor decision making, which is part of what fuels these controversies and the armchair second-guessing by those that weren't there.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Thankfully there were 3 climbers (Eric Meyer, Fredrik Sträng and Chris Klinke) from the American Team in 2008 on K2 that recognized trying to summit was a mistake and returned to Camp IV. I value their first hand accounts.
rocker spaniel wrote:
If you liked Into Thin Air, rent "Meru" - probably the best alpine climb documentary I've ever seen.
Krakauer is a talking head in the movie.
+1
that movie was amazing. If you followed the alex lowe saga in the late 90s it's even more facinating.
'Thin Air's a great book. Most of the hostility toward Jon started from people on the expedition, or friends and families thereof, or others in the 'climbing community' in general.
I think the basic reason's pretty simple: JK thoroughly exposes the incredible stupidity of the whole endeavor from every angle. The vanity, hypocrisy, shallowness, dishonesty, and flat-out stupidity, and *incredible* irresponsibility that underlie every aspect of the Everest 'business' are really laid bare in his book. (That's a really big part of why it's such a good book.)
None of those people really want to admit any of this about themselves, or their friends and family.
So they lashed back hard at Jon, and looked hard for particular things to hang on him, like the fact that he initially mis-identified one climber because of the hypoxia, exhaustion, and chaos.
(Really not his fault, totally understandable, and he seemed to feel horrible about it, went to great lengths to correct it and apologize, endlessly beat himself up about it --even though his mistake didn't directly harm anyone, and the actions of many others certainly did-- but lots of people acted as if he had personally killed somebody.)
I really think most of it's basically that simple.
It's a great book. Too bad the movie was an absolute piece of trash. (Wow, was *that* disappointing.)
Jimmy Chonga wrote:
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Did someone p!ss in your cornflakes this morning or is that something you just routinely do for yourself?
hypedupguy wrote:
Like I said, amateur climber. Get back to me when he solos K2 or Fitz Roy.
Most trolls have the decency to go away after they've been outed as douchebags, but I do
admire your persistence. You do know of course there has never been a verified TRUE solo
of K2, right? Benoit Chamoux of France climbed alone in 1986 but had benefit of fixed ropes
laid by his and other teams. Christian Stangl and Tomo Cesen have claimed solo ascents but
those are both mired in controversy and there is no proof of either climber reaching the
summit.
So all you've done here is proven you're an even bigger idiot than we thought. Well played.
sp2 wrote:
'Thin Air's a great book. Most of the hostility toward Jon started from people on the expedition, or friends and families thereof, or others in the 'climbing community' in general.
I think the basic reason's pretty simple: JK thoroughly exposes the incredible stupidity of the whole endeavor from every angle. The vanity, hypocrisy, shallowness, dishonesty, and flat-out stupidity, and *incredible* irresponsibility that underlie every aspect of the Everest 'business' are really laid bare in his book. (That's a really big part of why it's such a good book.)
None of those people really want to admit any of this about themselves, or their friends and family.
So they lashed back hard at Jon, and looked hard for particular things to hang on him, like the fact that he initially mis-identified one climber because of the hypoxia, exhaustion, and chaos.
(Really not his fault, totally understandable, and he seemed to feel horrible about it, went to great lengths to correct it and apologize, endlessly beat himself up about it --even though his mistake didn't directly harm anyone, and the actions of many others certainly did-- but lots of people acted as if he had personally killed somebody.)
I really think most of it's basically that simple.
It's a great book. Too bad the movie was an absolute piece of trash. (Wow, was *that* disappointing.)
Excellent analysis. I completely agree. It's understandable why those who were personally affected would be upset and would like to believe their loved one(s) made no mistakes and that it was just a freak accident, but the truth is that many poor, wreckless, irresponsible decisions were made, and it just so happened to be that one time when nature came to bite people for it. Nobody wants to hear their husband died because of his own bad choices, even if it's the tragic truth. I also agree that the honesty and forthcoming style of JK is what makes the book so great. It would be bland and boring if he tried to sugarcoat everything and failed to describe people's flaws, mistakes, peculiarities, etc.
Also, like others have pointed out, JK is a reasonably experienced and capable climber relative to many of the others who visit Everest. He's done enough to understand the nature of things, appreciate the reality of what he was doing there and what could potentially go wrong, and recognize errors in judgement as well as heroism and skill. He's like a guy who, while never having run in the Olympics or even professionally, still trained his ass off through HS and College, mixed it up with guys who went on to be national champions, and knows what it's like to a serious athlete even if he isn't one himself (any more; soloing the Devil's Thumb is no small feat). Meanwhile, all these blowhards with no experience at all are ranting about what a loser he is. It'd be like Joe Dummy who ran a 25 minute 5k once telling a college coach with a 14:15 PR that Mr. Joe is the real expert here. Stupid.
sp2 wrote:
'Thin Air's a great book. Most of the hostility toward Jon started from people on the expedition, or friends and families thereof, or others in the 'climbing community' in general.
I think the basic reason's pretty simple: JK thoroughly exposes the incredible stupidity of the whole endeavor from every angle. The vanity, hypocrisy, shallowness, dishonesty, and flat-out stupidity, and *incredible* irresponsibility that underlie every aspect of the Everest 'business' are really laid bare in his book. (That's a really big part of why it's such a good book.)
None of those people really want to admit any of this about themselves, or their friends and family.
So they lashed back hard at Jon, and looked hard for particular things to hang on him, like the fact that he initially mis-identified one climber because of the hypoxia, exhaustion, and chaos.
(Really not his fault, totally understandable, and he seemed to feel horrible about it, went to great lengths to correct it and apologize, endlessly beat himself up about it --even though his mistake didn't directly harm anyone, and the actions of many others certainly did-- but lots of people acted as if he had personally killed somebody.)
I really think most of it's basically that simple.
It's a great book. Too bad the movie was an absolute piece of trash. (Wow, was *that* disappointing.)
Really well said. You should write for a living.
Base Camp Future wrote:
It'd be like Joe Dummy who ran a 25 minute 5k once telling a college coach with a 14:15 PR that Mr. Joe is the real expert here. Stupid.
Your post is great, but I'd say soloing Devils Thumb is more like having a 13:30 PR... that is a serious endeavor far from help if it goes bad. (Yes, splitting hairs... like I said, your post is spot on!)
climbers are a funny lot wrote:
Most trolls have the decency to go away after they've been outed as douchebags, but I do
admire your persistence. You do know of course there has never been a verified TRUE solo
of K2, right? Benoit Chamoux of France climbed alone in 1986 but had benefit of fixed ropes
laid by his and other teams. Christian Stangl and Tomo Cesen have claimed solo ascents but
those are both mired in controversy and there is no proof of either climber reaching the
summit.
So all you've done here is proven you're an even bigger idiot than we thought. Well played.
Get back to me when those guys ski off of K2. Real mountaineers are mountaineers in all aspects of the discipline, including ski mountaineering.