Attention Small School State Champ, YOURE NOT ALL D1 STUFF

Calm down. Mark Wetmore said in Running with the Buffaloes that is goi got a team of 4:20 guys and and they trained really hard for 4 years, you would have a darn good team.

Just look at some examples in the NCAA: Cam levins - 4:19, went on to win 5k and 10k nationals

Tyler Day (NAU) ran 4:20 In high school, and he finished 3rd in NCAA cross

Dillon Maggard (USU) ran 4:19 in high school, and he has finished 12th and 6th in NCAA XC.

They may be confident they can go D1 and improve. They may have a poor understanding of how few scholarships are available. That doesn't mean they are delusional. Maybe a small school kid is more likely to be delusional, because they don't get beat. But in my experience the kids usually know where they stand as far as times go. Now, the parents and friends, yes they are often delusional. They just see them win, but aren't in the sport so don't understand times. That happens at larger schools too.

Regardless of delusions, the attrition rate of 4:20-30 guys is high no matter what size school they came from. If anything, it might be higher for the larger school kids, who generally trained harder and don't make as rapid of improvement.

It seems the experience of most here is different than yours. Please tell us the specific examples that spurred this post? I think we are all curious.

Beat the system wrote:

Calm down. Mark Wetmore said in Running with the Buffaloes that if he got a team of 4:20 guys and and they trained really hard for 4 years, you would have a darn good team.

That was 20 years ago. A LOT has changed. A LOT.

1) The training in HS used to suck. Now it's generally pretty good.

2) Back then 4:20 meant 4:20 in like a normal meet in windy daylight conditions. Now it means 4:20 in pristine conditions so 4:20 is like 4:25 back in the day.

That being said.

One of my best runners at Cornell didn't break 4:20. Nate Edelman ran 29:10 and was NCAA 2nd-team all-Americna in the 10k.

HS pbs: 1600 4:24 3200 9:31

Now, those times are very misleading. He only started running as a junior in HS. Ran xc that year and then didn't do track. Senior year did to track (while playing soccer at same time) and ran those times.

I always say you are recruiting talent/not times.

I figured I"d take a kid who was top 5 in his state xc with no background and no track times versus a kid who had been running for years and was running 4:20. I got lucky. He was runnign 40-50 mpw in the fall and 20-30 during track.

Zach Hine. Ran 4:17, 9:44 in HS. Ran 29:09 for me in college. Now has run 28:37/2:16. He ran a decent amount in HS. All 4 years but he also wrestled in the winter and was the NE. A 9:44 in Mass isn't close to the same thing as a 9:44 from CA>

12th grade: Mileage: 60-70 mpw.

rojo wrote:

Beat the system wrote:

Calm down. Mark Wetmore said in Running with the Buffaloes that if he got a team of 4:20 guys and and they trained really hard for 4 years, you would have a darn good team.

That was 20 years ago. A LOT has changed. A LOT.

1) The training in HS used to suck. Now it's generally pretty good.

2) Back then 4:20 meant 4:20 in like a normal meet in windy daylight conditions. Now it means 4:20 in pristine conditions so 4:20 is like 4:25 back in the day.

That's still the rule for small school kids, at least in Texas. Of course there are more exceptions to that rule now than there used to be, but not enough to say it's changed.

Uh bro, you obviously were a huge failure and need to project. I think it's awful when guys you like try to shoot down others dreams.

I was a 9:30 two miler who went to a small D1 college. Guess what? I ended up on a full-ride and finished school with a couple of school records and other accolades.

STFU

[3.1]Miles Davis wrote:

Someone Who Knows wrote:

4:20 for a 17 or 18 year old is pretty good and shows potential.

Not if you have to run 70 mpw to do it

Sure it does. Why does everyone think 70 MPW in high school means no improvement in college? 70 is what decent runners in high school should be doing. Ritz ran up to 100 and then got way better after high school. You could even keep at 70 MPW and would get better in college because you are older. Many college distance guys will get over 70 a week anyway.

100% douche baggers both in content and attitude. What's wrong Miles? Someone take your slot?

1. Most small school state champs are WAY undertrained, poorly coached, and mostly have no teammates to push them or share experiences with. = much bigger upside than a guy from big power house with marginally faster times.

2. MPW. Hardly ever even close at small schools. Think 30 mpw vs 70 mpw.

3. Open 400 times. Guarantee a small school students athlete has real 400 times posted. ---Opportunity & nececity. Very few large school 1600 athletes get the opportunity to compete in open 4s. A 9:40, 4:20 small school runner with a 50 second open 400 running 30 miles a week is WAY more appealing than a 9:10, 4:14 with no 400 posted and training @ 70 mpw.

3. The biggest factor?? 800 meters.

1:54, 4:20 > 1:58, 4:14. Regardless of large or small school.

4. Your fast, large high school times won't matter when you toe the line against said small school stud in college. Are you afraid of competing against small school athletes? Why?

Track is a beautiful sport because it's simplicity. ...take it to the track and see how it plays out. He may kick your ass. If so, it won't be because you went to big school and he went to small school. It will be because he's faster.

5. You're still a douche bag.

good lord. this was not a statement that small school kids aren't talented. yes theere are amazing kids who come from small schools. Its not the size of the school that matters, just the talent of the kid. I come from a small school. What I was pointing out is that the majority of small school champs ARE NOT BEST SUITED FOR D1, but it doesnt mean there arent exceptions. The fact that A FEW small school champs were studs doesnt negate the the fact that MOST small school champs who go D1 end up 1.) pulling up the rear of d1 schools and/or 2.) quitting or getting cut. This is not an opinion and its not douche to point this out. This is just a "reality check".

You missed the mark... wrote:

Uh bro, you obviously were a huge failure and need to project. I think it's awful when guys you like try to shoot down others dreams.

I was a 9:30 two miler who went to a small D1 college. Guess what? I ended up on a full-ride and finished school with a couple of school records and other accolades.

STFU

1.) Race me

2.) We're not talking about tiny, out of the way d1 schools.

Hey “You missed the mark”. If you improved that much and were that good, why not provide your name? We provide names all of the time here like Hengst, Fisher, Knight, Cain, Salazar, Schweizer, Brazier, Houlihan, Chez, Sowinski, Andrews. Those were all mentioned in the past week so proudly put your name out if the info is really true. Full rides don’t happen so I don’t really believe you and your 14:30 at some college that we never heard of probably wouldn’t impress too many.

I went to a small HS and didn’t even qualify for state (I’m a female). I didn’t run in the off season, summer, or weekends in HS - never had a HS coach teach me how to actually train so I absolutely clueless. I went to a D-I school and walked on. I absolutely sucked my freshman year so my coach redshirted me. By my sophomore year I was making huge improvements and traveling with the team, and by my junior year I was on scholarship and scoring in conference and top 5 for cross country. I don’t think I would’ve made those same improvements at D-II or D-III. I think I only won 2 races in college, but I was happy to run against the best and to have a D-I athletic experience.

Why so mad? wrote:

I went to a small HS and didn’t even qualify for state (I’m a female). I didn’t run in the off season, summer, or weekends in HS - never had a HS coach teach me how to actually train so I absolutely clueless. I went to a D-I school and walked on. I absolutely sucked my freshman year so my coach redshirted me. By my sophomore year I was making huge improvements and traveling with the team, and by my junior year I was on scholarship and scoring in conference and top 5 for cross country. I don’t think I would’ve made those same improvements at D-II or D-III. I think I only won 2 races in college, but I was happy to run against the best and to have a D-I athletic experience.

Firstly, why does everyone think im mad? I'm making an honest observation. It might not be what you WANT to hear, but that doesn't mean I'm mad.

Secondly, was this a D1 school like a PAC 12, B1G, etc, OR was it a second/third tier D1 school like green bay, or mississippi valley state?

Third, women's teams are different and don't really apply to this situation (Title IX).

Please provide your name. I would be proud to if it was me or I knew of you. We are data junkies here and would love to share in your accomplishments instead of hiding it.

Dear Tough Dude-

I am the little talent you are talking about. 6 years of running. never lost a race. lots of lonely runs, but a coach with a heart on a bike. Broke school record by a kid that went on to run for Stanford. Broke a record by a kid that ran for the US in the Olympics and made the podium. These records I set wouldn't make you blink cuz yes I am from a tiny conference you have never heard of. Only a few coaches out there found me. But looks like they want me to be D1 stuff. Get over your anger. Must kinda suck to be you. But so so sweet to be us small runners out there with so so much ass left to kick.

Track fans love the underdog. I don’t sense anger in many of the posts who truly want to know the real history of posters or other real life stories. Everyone loves telling the story of Karissa Schweizer or Stanovsek or Murphy or Symonds. I think you are misinterpreting the majority of the intentions.

Iowa ran 9:33 in the DMR today with 4 Walkons who split 2:57-46-1:47-4:02. Everyone can go their roster and actually look up their HS PRs and college PRs. Why won’t more of you posters share your real names and stories.

"Where" is not equal to "were"

[3.1]Miles Davis wrote:

You missed the mark... wrote:

Uh bro, you obviously were a huge failure and need to project. I think it's awful when guys you like try to shoot down others dreams.

I was a 9:30 two miler who went to a small D1 college. Guess what? I ended up on a full-ride and finished school with a couple of school records and other accolades.

STFU

1.) Race me

2.) We're not talking about tiny, out of the way d1 schools.

Nice job cherry-picking the posts you reply to.

I'd like to throw my hat into the ring on racing you.

[3.1]Miles Davis wrote:

Meh... wrote:

I ran 4:34 and 9:52 in high school. I ended up being one of the top 2 guys on a D1 team.

on what team tho. We arn't talking Mississippi valley state or Green Bay type "D1" schools. We're talking PAC 12, Big 10, etc.

Middle of the pack Big 10 school. We never made nationals but we got close a few times.