Race was today? Just going for a little bump.
Race was today? Just going for a little bump.
Another bump here. Curious how it went. Also curious why a 2:24 guy would choose a marathon with a 3 hour winning time last year and only 15 finishers under four hours. That's a long lonely road!
Winning time was 2:42 Soooooo......
Nothing wrong with the moderate 20 miler but you still have to find a race with some competition.
You need to get sharper speed side but also push the pace on more 10-15 mi runs to go < 2:20. Your mileage is fine.
Stop doing the workouts where you push then jog in the middle portion. If it is a fartlek then great but go faster than these paces. If it is a simulation you are looking for, those workouts as you ran them don't prepare you like constant or progressive runs.
Hi all,
I actually pulled out, so did not make the trip last minute. Figured it would be better to get a few more weeks of training and try to tackle a sub 2:22 at Mercedes Marathon.
Thanks all for ur input.
dsrunner wrote:
Stop doing the workouts where you push then jog in the middle portion. If it is a fartlek then great but go faster than these paces. If it is a simulation you are looking for, those workouts as you ran them don't prepare you like constant or progressive runs.
I do workouts similar to the ones that you are proposing he cut out of the schedule and I have found them to be the key work outs of my training cycle. They are threshold workouts early and late in a medium-long to long run. They both get you ready physically by way of an LT adaptation, and mentally by forcing you to work at a pretty decent effort deep into a run.
I agree, jack Daniels introduced this style of training and many athletes have found success with the approach. So I figured why not do it again
They have been to the key to whatever degree of success I have had in the marathon, although I have to admit that I am dreading my first one of the Boston cycle, which will be a week from Saturday (2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile w/:60 rest; 8 mi easy; 20 min tempo; 2.5 down for 20-21 total miles).
Curious if you have found this to be the case too - in these workouts, if I go off of perceived effort rather than sticking to a pre-determined pace, I would say about a third of the time I end up somewhere between threshold and marathon pace. It doesn't bother me at all because I think perceived effort (particularly for someone experienced enough to really lock in on the right perceived effort) is key. But I am curious if others who do these Daniels based workouts have had the same experience.
Much agreed. I try not to really kill those workouts cause it's about consistency and you really feel it by the time you hit that last interval or repeat especially 12-16 Miles in. I always used the rule -5to 10 We can let mile under goal marathon pace. Key is just to be able to do these weekly. But I also am finding out I need to incorporate a day of just pure speed a week to get the legs moving FAST. otherwise I feel like I am just bordrmerinf 5:20s but need to be able to throw down the hammer if the pack surges. Which has been a default of mine.
Agreed regarding the need to keep some speed work - in certain cases. For someone in my position - someone competitive in his age group in just about any race out there, but who is still essentially running for time since you don't identify and race other masters runners - that ability to respond to surges really is just not important, and the price that I pay for faster work just isn't worth paying. Instead, I am better off just working my aerobic miles and my LT work, putting myself in a position to grind at goal pace for as long as possible.
But for the young guys that I work with who may end up near the front of 2nd tier races (one guys is a 1:04 guy, the other a 2:18 guy) or with a secondary pack in better races, the ability to respond to surges and maintain contact is really important, so they get a bit of vo2max maintenance work throughout the training cycle, although it often comes by way of shorter races. Plus, they are still racing major races at shorter distances, so I don't want them to lose touch with their faster paces.
I agree with most of your post. But fast training paces are not just to respond to surges. Fast workouts make MP feel more comfortable and build your engine capacity. Some need more. Some need less. But it's not just for super fast elites going for the win. So if you say you ignore it for the last 12 weeks that's a legitimate thing right before a marathon. But of course you pay with losing a bit more power (what even Canova says that it is ok for top tier marathoners because you cannot be 5k sharp and in PR shape for the marathon at the same time).
I do a big block of 6 weeks of vo2max from18 weeks out to 12 weeks out for exactly that reason - to make the ton of threshold and marathon pace work over the last 12 weeks more manageable. After that though, the maintenance comes via shorter races. In this case, I will run a local 4 mile race in February, a local 10k race in March, and Gate River Run 15k in March. While the 10k and 15k are not great for vo2max development, the 4 miler and 10k should do just enough on that front to act as maintenance.