How to train a marathon for a guy with more fast twitch muscle

D-train wrote:

As the subject line said - I am a more fast twitch muscle guy who has run several marathons, but always struggle with the traditional training method - Advanced marathoning, Hanson (Mainly the long MP).

If you are a fast twitch dominant guy (relatively speaking), what are the workouts/trainings that make you become a good marathoner. Can you train with easy, long run and intervals only?

Humans have three different muscle types: 1) slow, 2) slower & 3) slowest. Compared to most mammals, humans are not fast twitch creatures. We can remove the skin from a duck and view slow twitch muscles. We can remove the skin from a chicken and view the different muscle types. Athletes get muscle biopsies performed by universities or shoe companies while athletes are in their late teens and twenties. Muscle biopsies are not done on infants. We train a certain way and our muscles adapt. Overlooked: we train a certain way and our brain adapts. Some runner psychologically adapt well to racing app. 4 seconds slower than their 200m personal best for 800m. Some athletes psychologically adapt well to max effort out of the blocks. Are former sprinter not capable of turning liver fat into fuel? Athletes who grow up playing baseball, basketball and American football will be faster than kids who grow up yachting and golfing.

You should email Nick Symmonds. He is serious about getting better at the marathon and will run his second in April.

Or you could try contacting Sage Canaday. He seems to like to help people.

ET Call Home wrote:

You should email Nick Symmonds. He is serious about getting better at the marathon and will run his second in April.

Or you could try contacting Sage Canaday. He seems to like to help people.

Nick Symmonds trained to be an elite 800m runner from a young lad until age 32 or 33. He's now racing some longer races and not impressing you. Nick gave it is all while a young man. The tank is empty.

Sage Canaday, an ultra-person. Did Canaday grow up playing t-ball/baseball, basketball and football from age five then somehow became a slow sprinter? I suppose you intend to show me film footage of Sage doing home plate to first base sprint drills from age five? If not, you are helping make my point.

Thank you.

I think that wrote:

No, JS. I guarantee I have run faster at all distances faster than anyone you have coached. Now go away.

Hehe! Then you have run sub 1:49 at 800m, sub 3:39 at 1500m, sub 13:32 at 5000m, sub 27:47 at 10 k, sub 1:01:40 at half

and sub 2:07:38 at marathon ??? Don`t think so...... ;)

Hardloper wrote:

You're probably not fast twitch dominant. Just because you struggle with long MP runs doesn't make you type II dominant. You're probably balanced closer to 50/50 like most people.

Yes, you are correct!

+10

They have tested, and tested Kenyans and Ethiopians. Many studies show that those populations have no physical advantages over people from other countries. What matters is culture and expectations.

No one questions why the same colleges or high schools win year after year. (With the exception of school size) We know why...

So I agree with what you say in totality.

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

This mostly covers it. Three things I'd add. One, if you keep doing marathon training, your fibers will transition, and you'll have more slow twitch than before. It can take years though. Two, you need more recover from long hard efforts than a ST runner. Three, you must be very, very careful not to run too fast in training. FT runners can sometimes overcook themselves. ST running nerds don't have the speed reserve to get in as much trouble.

I think that wrote:

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

Paging JS. JS, pease pick up the red courtesy phone. Paging JS.

D-train wrote:

As the subject line said - I am a more fast twitch muscle guy who has run several marathons, but always struggle with the traditional training method - Advanced marathoning, Hanson (Mainly the long MP).

If you are a fast twitch dominant guy (relatively speaking), what are the workouts/trainings that make you become a good marathoner. Can you train with easy, long run and intervals only?

You can. This is close to how Benji Durden trained back in the day. He's actually fairly fast-twitch as marathoners go; he ran under 50 for 400m. He has posted about his training on LR; you should look up his posts.

I think that wrote:

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

Last call for JS. Either respond with specific runners names and races or I'll save this thread and throw it back in your face every time you post on LRC. Last call for JS.

Hog wrote:

I know a marathoner who was 60% fast twitch and placed 4th in Olympic marathon. Lots of threshold and easy long runs.

And that's what you need. Train the type 2 fast twitch to develop mitochondria

I think intervals are better than the long run.because In the course of the most recent decade, high-intensity interval workouts have risen top of the fitness list.They’re quicker, additional time-productive, and similarly as powerful at boosting wellness and wellbeing—or more compelling, by few measures—compared to traditional “continuous” workouts.

Isn't the basic rule of thumb to work on your weaknesses? If slow twitch, train your speed; if fast twitch, train endurance. I'm not convinced OP is fast twitch, though. How do you know without a biopsy? Is there a reliable estimator?

I think that wrote:

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

Ok, you want specifics ? I currently coach Kenyon runner Moses Kip Kippy who just won an internalized 10k in Eldorat in 24:57. Slow for him, but it was on a dirt road . Ezekial Kip Ngetty is also one of my internalized winners and runs the 800m in 1:38.7 in Paris, recently . Indoors. It was a solo time trial , actually with exact rest just for him . my DOOKIECAN system is magic!

jane nair wrote:

I think intervals are better than the long run.because In the course of the most recent decade, high-intensity interval workouts have risen top of the fitness list.They’re quicker, additional time-productive, and similarly as powerful at boosting wellness and wellbeing—or more compelling, by few measures—compared to traditional “continuous” workouts.

Thanks for adding a bit of humor to this thread.

Thanks guys for all the positive and informative feedback.

So, in summary.. Long run, long interval, not to run too fast. Need longer recovery than ST muscle guys.

Of course, the joke that I was not really fast twitch - I might not. But, my FT are much stronger now with 54" quarter (49 years old), but only a 2:50 marathon.

One ore question: for FT guy training for marathon, which is better, long interval vs tempo (say 10x1000 vs 10 mile tempo or 14 miles MP)?

I think that wrote:

I think that wrote:

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

Last call for JS. Either respond with specific runners names and races or I'll save this thread and throw it back in your face every time you post on LRC. Last call for JS.

I'm so glad you called this JS dude out. As an only occassional reader of Letsrun training forums who is looking for some traning wisdom, it does my head in when I see his annoying intrusions into virtually every thread I happen to read. He must drive regular readers that are looking for help or those who are wanting to help hack runners like me absolulutely mental.

I think that wrote:

I think that wrote:

I'm glad you listed some times. I'll tell you what, JS. Let's make a deal: if you tell me SPECIFIC names and SPECIFIC races where YOU coached these athletes to these time...not vauge unverifiable spouts...SPECIFIC details...if you do that, I will gladly reveal my identity and times.

Deal?

Last call for JS. Either respond with specific runners names and races or I'll save this thread and throw it back in your face every time you post on LRC. Last call for JS.

Go to

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