How would you rate the best marathon training plans?

I would rate the best marathon plan #1.

I'd also add that any plan should have a limit of 70 miles per week. Last year, I averaged in the low 50's and this year I'm doing just short of 50 right now and am planning on the low 60's.

What time frame are you looking to run?

3:29:45 (8:00 pace)

I've been trying to run under 3:30 since my first marathon (New York 1988). On the down side, I'm 0 for 5 trying to do it. On the plus side, every marathon was a PR (but a narrow range from 3:58 to 3:43).

I was three minutes under 3:30 pace at mile 19 in my first marathon but got a stitch in my side and ended up walking about half of the rest of the way.

Marathons 2 through 4 were NYC in '96, '97 and '99 but I had injury issues and was limited to about 35 miles per week.

I came out of retirement at Newport, OR last year (first race of any kind since '99) and lowered my PR by a little over two minutes, which is the first time I had any real training plan.

At this point, I am in the kind of shape now that I was in mid-February a year ago.

I think Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning is pretty good. There's a 24 week plan that maxes out at 70 mpw, and another one that maxes out at 93.

Last year I did Hansons (with a coach) and wasn't happy with how that turned out. Was on an 8:00 pace through 14.5 miles and literally faded every mile but one after that. Even though I followed the training and race plans reasonably closely. I could have seen falling from a 3:30 to 3:34/3:35 but not to 3:43.

I think part of the issue is I need to run more miles and more long runs - I'm going to shoot for 61-65 miles per week with my regular easy runs moving from the 6 miles I was running last year to either 10 or 11. Right now, I'm in the process of extending them (did 8.6 today). I started this time around with Daniels and was just about to get the Pfitzinger book you mentioned and take a little bit from both.

Right now I'm doing three workouts every 10 days with two days off but have decided to change that so that instead of running every 4 days out of 5, it will be 5 of 6 (last year I was running 6 days a week).

One thing I've gathered about Pfitzinger is he has this extra intermediate long run and I think that would be a good idea for me to work in, wherein I would eventually be doing some sort of long run every week instead of every 10 days or so.

I didn't think I'd be able to get in the same shape I was in last year because I didn't come out of the race that great and it was almost two months before I was able to get on a regular running schedule and I had lost all fitness that I previously had. I started with 4.5 mile runs and was actually running 11 minute miles for a few weeks...

I was prepared to recommend Hanson's advanced training plan (from the book), but see you already gave that one a shot. I have two thoughts for you. First off, you're smart to sh op around for a plan that fits YOU mentally and physically. People differ on how much time and effort they're willing to put into a training cycle. Know yourself! Secondly, once you've picked your shiny new plan, stick to it! I'd be cautious about mixing and matching elements of two different plans.

Before writing my marathon training schedule this year, I purchased Daniels' book and Pfitzinger's book. I had previously -- and successfully -- used Pfitzinger's 1999 "Road Racing for Serious Runners" for 5k and HM training, and decided to go with Pfitzinger again.

I am older, so rewrote the plan based on a 9-day cycle to accommodate more recovery and some cross-training.

So, every nine days I included three "hard days" -- a long run, a medium long run, and a workout (like 4 miles at LT pace). The two long runs were progression runs, including some close-to-MP miles. The other six days were easy recovery runs, a rest day, and a couple bike rides.

I peaked at about 50 miles per week, averaged less than 40. But that was an increase from the previous year, and my marathon time dropped from 3:25 to 3:07.

How did you adapt that plan to a 9 day cycle? I want to do the same but if I spread a 18-20 week 7 day training cycle over 9-10 days that would be over 25 weeks. Did you do this or did you omit certain weeks to make it fit 18-20 weeks total?

It depends on genetics, but for me: A long run every 9-12 day. Not every singel week. Some should be tempo runs

Every third week it should include one day with both short and long intervals on the same day. Some upphil running every week. Short intervals every week either as track or uphill Mostly only 2 workouts a week if long run is not ran at a slow pace

Scubacane wrote:

How did you adapt that plan to a 9 day cycle? I want to do the same but if I spread a 18-20 week 7 day training cycle over 9-10 days that would be over 25 weeks. Did you do this or did you omit certain weeks to make it fit 18-20 weeks total?

I wrote it as an 18-week plan, maintaining the overall progression, but eliminating a few workouts. Also, week 10 was a six-day taper and a 15K race.

I based it on Pfitzinger's less-than-55 plan, but the long runs were more like the 55-70 plan. During the 18 weeks, I had a total of ten runs of 18 to 23 miles.

Thanks, I want to do something similar for fall marathon. I am currently just working on building my base by using Pzitz' " Advanced Road Racing" book- they have a base building schedule that i plan to follow

Scubacane -- You could also take Pfitzinger's 12-week plan, and convert that to 18 weeks on a 9- or 10-day cycle. Or use it as a reference regarding the most important workouts to include. Also, his chapter on running multiple marathons describes the key workouts for a short training period between races, which may help set priorities for you.

I would love to see the plan you made. I need to work on strengthening my aerobic base- I have a 22 min 5k PR recently which should translate to 340-345 marathon but cant seem to hold that pace beyond 14-15 miles. You did 10 runs of 18 or greater! I think that is what I need to do to get to that level

Scubacane wrote:

I would love to see the plan you made. I need to work on strengthening my aerobic base- I have a 22 min 5k PR recently which should translate to 340-345 marathon but cant seem to hold that pace beyond 14-15 miles. You did 10 runs of 18 or greater! I think that is what I need to do to get to that level

I pulled up my plan, with the thought of posting it, but see I didn't save the original. I wrote over it with my ACTUAL training which was derailed somewhat due to injuries.

Because of the injuries, I truncated some of the workouts (especially the VO2 max workouts later in the schedule), and I skipped a few of the medium-long runs, opting to stack some of the long runs closer together. Like seven days apart instead of nine.

For marathon training, the long runs are the priority.

My plan as originally written would have been far superior, but I had to deal with reality (knee and achilles issues).

From January through April, I followed a nine-day HM plan I based on Pfitzinger's old book. His schedule generally was a long run, a secondary long run, and a workout each week (alternating vo2max and LT workouts). In my nine-day version, I included the two long runs, and BOTH vo2max and LT workouts in each cycle.

Super results in terms of huge improvements in a short time, but perhaps a little too aggressive at age 57. I had to train through injuries for the rest of the year.

Apologies to the OP for this tangent.

Scubacane, as I said in the previous post, it's the long run that must be prioritized, especially for you, as you're struggling to maintain pace after 15 miles.

For what it's worth, this is how my plan worked out in real life. Because of injuries, I had to rewrite as I went. Every step was painful, and particularly the last month or so I needed to really back things off.

"LR2" is the secondary long run, or "medium long run," as Pfitzinger has it in the newer books. "XT" is cross training. Again, apologies to the OP for going off topic.

16 WEEKS TO GOAL

LR: 12.0 miles @ 8:00/mi

Easy: 8.5 miles @ 8:06/mi w/1mi@MP

Off

Easy: 5.1 miles @ 8:33/mi

LR2: 10.0 miles @ 7:42/mi w/1mi@MP

Easy: 4.0 miles @ 9:15/mi

Easy: 9.6 miles @ 8:28/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 49.2 MILES

15 WEEKS TO GOAL

XT: Bike 18.5 miles @ 18.1 mph

Off

LR: 13.5 miles @ 7:35/mi

XT:Bike 24.9 miles 18.9 mph

LT: 2.5-mi warmup; 2 x 2 miles w/2min rest: @6:40/mi, @6:37/mi; 2.5-mi cooldown

Easy: 4.5 miles @ 9:27/mi

Easy: 7.1 miles @ 8:20/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 34.1 MILES

14 WEEKS TO GOAL

LR: 15.2 miles @ 8:32/mi

XT:Bike 18.5 miles @ 19.1 mph

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 8:04/mi

LR2: 12.4 miles @ 7:13/mi

XT: Bike 18.5 miles @ 19.0 mph

Easy: 8.4 miles @ 8:42/mi

LT: 2-mile warmup; 4.0 miles @ 6:40/mi; 1-mile cooldown

WEEK TOTAL: 53.0 MILES

13 WEEKS TO GOAL

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:42/mi

Easy: 10.4 miles @ 8:51/mi

LR: 18.5 miles @ 8:02/mi

XT: Bike 18.5 @ 18.1 mph

Easy: 6.0 miles @ 8:29/mi

LR2: 12.0 miles @ 7:07/mi

XT: Bike 18.5 miles @ 17.9 mph

WEEK TOTAL: 53.9 MILES

12 WEEKS TO GOAL:

Off

LT: 2-mi warmup; 5.0 miles @ 6:40/mi; 2-mi cooldown

Easy: 10.4 miles @ 7:56/mi

Easy: 10.4 miles @ 8:50/mi

LR: 18.1 miles @ 7:33/mi

XT:Bike 14.4 miles @ 18.5 mph

Easy: 6.0 miles @ 10:42/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 53.9 MILES

11 WEEKS TO GOAL

XT:Bike 23.8 miles @ 18.6 mph

LR2: 14.0 miles @ 8:24/mi avg (progression 10:32/mi to 6:54/mi)

XT:Bike 26.8miles @ 18.5 mph

Easy: 3.0 miles @ 9:31/mi

LT: 2-mi warmup; 3 x 2 miles w/2-min recoveries @6:36/mi, @6:33/mi, @6:30/mi; 1.5-mi cooldown

XT:Bike 35.3 miles @ 17.6 mph

Off

WEEK TOTAL: 26.5 MILES

10 WEEKS TO GOAL:

LR: 20.0 miles @ 8:54/mi

XT:Bike 22.9 miles @ 18.3 mph

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:35/mi

LT: 2.5-mi warmup; 5.0 miles @ 6:45; 2.5-mi cooldown

XT:Bike 18.3 miles @ 19.1 mph

LR2: 14.3 miles @ 7:42/mi

Off

WEEK TOTAL: 51.3 MILES

9 WEEKS TO GOAL

Easy: 6.0 miles @ 9:29/mi

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 9:52/mi

LT: 3-mi warmup; 5.0 miles @ 6:40/mi; 2-mi cooldown

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:22/mi

LR: 12.0 miles @ 8:14/mi

XT:Bike 27.4 miles @ 19.0 mph

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:31/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 47.0 MILES

8 WEEKS TO GOAL

Off

LR: 20.0 miles @ 7:56/mi (1-10) @ 7:12/mi (11-20)

XT:Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.7 mph

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 7:46/mi

LT: 2.5-mi warmup; 3 x 2 miles w/2min recoveries @ (6:31-6:29), (6:29-6:32), (6:30-6:20); 2.5-mile cooldown

XT/Easy:Bike 27.4 miles @ 19.0 mph; 5.0 miles @ 8:54/mi

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 50.0 MILES

7 WEEKS TO GOAL

XT:Bike 23.7 miles @ 18.8 mph

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 8:40/mi w/6 x 90-sec @ 5K pace

XT:Bike 18.3 miles @ 19.8 mph

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:47/mi w/3 x 90-sec @ 5K pace

XT:Bike 14.5 miles @ 18.5 mph

Easy: 3.0 miles @ 9:38/mi w/1 x 90-sec @ 5K pace

LT: 2-mi warmup; 15K race @ 6:26/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 43.3 MILES

6 WEEKS TO GOAL

Off

XT:Bike 14.5 miles @ 19.2 mph

VO2max: 1.5-mi warmup; 4 x 880y w/2min recoveries @ 3:05, 3:07, 2:56, 2:57 1.5-mi cooldown

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 9:32/mi; bike 7.0 miles

LR: 18.0 miles @ 8:31/mi

XT:Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.5 mph

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 8:55/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 30.0 MILES

5 WEEKS TO GOAL

Off

XT:Bike 73 miles untimed

Easy: 5.0 miles untimed

LR: 20.0 miles @ 7:45/mi

XT:Bike 18 miles untimed

VO2max: 1.5-mi warmup; 4 x 1000m w/3:15 jogs @ 3:49, 3:44, 3:43, 3:40; 2.5-mi cooldown

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 8:43/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 41.7 MILES

4 WEEKS TO GOAL

Off

Easy: 8.0 miles @ 8:41/mi

VO2max: 1.3-mi warmup; 5 x 800m w/2:10 walk/jog @ 2:56, 2:56, 2:55, 2:55, 2:54; 1.0-mi cooldown

LR: 18.3 miles @ 7:43/mi

XT:Bike 23.8 miles @ 19.7 mph

LT: 3-mi warmup; 4.0 miles @ 6:35/mi; 2-mi cooldown

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 10:58/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 47.5 MILES

3 WEEKS TO GOAL

XT:Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.6 mph

VO2max: 3.5-mi warmup; 3 x 1 mile w/4:55 walk/jog @ 6:16, 6:13, 6:05; 2.5-mi cooldown

XT:Bike 23.8 miles @ 19.7 mph

Easy: 4.0 miles @ 8:41/mi; Bike 24.0 miles @ 19.6 mph

LR: 22.5 miles @ 8:08/mi

XT:Bike 19.8 miles @ 18.7 mph

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 10:12/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 40.8 MILES

3 WEEKS TO GOAL

Off

Off

VO2max: 5.0-mi warmup; 5 x 880y w/2min recoveries @ 3:08, 3:07, 3:06, 3:02, 3:03; 6.5-mi cooldown; Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.4 mph

Off

LT: 2.0-mile warmup; 3 x 1 mile w/90sec recoveries @ 6:32, 6:24, 6:22; 1.0-mile cooldown

Off

Off

WEEK TOTAL: 20.0 MILES

2 WEEKS TO GOAL

LR 20.0 miles @ 8:07mi

XT:Bike 20.1 miles @ 19.5 mph

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 8:28/mi

XT:Bike 18.7 miles @ 19.2 mph

LT: 48-minute run with 20 mins at perceived threshold pace

Off

Easy: 40-minute run, very slowly

WEEK TOTAL: 40 MILES

1 WEEK TO GOAL

Off

Off

Easy: 4.6 miles @ 8:24/mi

Easy: 7.0 miles @ 7:51/mi

Off

XT: Bike 32.5 miles @ 18.6 mph

Easy: 5.1 miles @ 7:26/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 16.7 MILES

RACE WEEK:

Off

Easy: 4.0 miles (splits - 8:48, 7:55, 7:49, 7:15)

Easy: 4.0 miles (splits - 9:03, 8:21, 7:57, 6:53)

Easy: 4.0 miles (splits - 8:22, 7:49, 7:07, 6:44)

Easy: 2.0 miles @ 7:54/mi

Off

Race: Marathon 3:07:23 (7:09/mi)

WEEK TOTAL: 40.2 MILES

great, thx- love the emphasis on the LR- strong aerobic base

Keep it simple:

Five days a week run an hour and a half at two minutes slower than race pace.

One day a week run 18 miles at one minute per mile slower than race pace.

One day a week run 12 miles at five seconds faster per mile than race pace.

Do this for eight weeks.

gelindo wrote:

Keep it simple:

Five days a week run an hour and a half at two minutes slower than race pace.

One day a week run 18 miles at one minute per mile slower than race pace.

One day a week run 12 miles at five seconds faster per mile than race pace.

Do this for eight weeks.

That would work. For a 3-hour marathoner, that's 90 miles per week, which should certainly get results. I would be inclined to include a rest day, and a few 20 to 23-mile runs. But, then, I have never consistently trained more than 60 mpw, so no personal experience with a high-mileage approach.