3:28 man, Elijah Manangoi, can run a sub 46 400m

Incorrect, according to the IAAF article, Manangoi ran 46.5 at the Kenyan Championships.

And the OP has nothing to do with Seb Coe. It was about Manangoi stating sub-46 speed. You guys always make it about Coe.

alkj wrote:

And the OP has nothing to do with Seb Coe. It was about Manangoi stating sub-46 speed. You guys always make it about Coe.

Exactly!

Deanouk, I used to like your posts (well, the content is still good), but you and crapolin must take those Coe, intrinsic, ~1.5m, 1'38'', mickey mouse track, mandingo posts somewhere else.

Seriously, how many threads that were not about Coe have the two of you turned into the same old thing?

I get it that you respond to his insane comments but please, let's get that shiithead banned again and please, can you use your enormous knowledge for worthy contributions?

I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

fsdhytrwh wrote:

alkj wrote:

And the OP has nothing to do with Seb Coe. It was about Manangoi stating sub-46 speed. You guys always make it about Coe.

Exactly!

Deanouk, I used to like your posts (well, the content is still good), but you and crapolin must take those Coe, intrinsic, ~1.5m, 1'38'', mickey mouse track, mandingo posts somewhere else.

Seriously, how many threads that were not about Coe have the two of you turned into the same old thing?

I get it that you respond to his insane comments but please, let's get that shiithead banned again and please, can you use your enormous knowledge for worthy contributions?

I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

May I kindly remind you that all the terms you have listed - "intrinsic, ~1.5m, 1'38'', mickey mouse track, mandingo", are nothing to do with me, and all the words used by Calculo.

I have used the term, extrinsic, I don't use ~, I have never claimed anyone was remotely capable of running 1'38" for 800m, and anyway, I'd write it as 1:38. Mickey mouse track and mandingo are just disrespectful terms to the track and the athlete concerned.

As you rightly stated, most of what I have written on this thread is in response to the nonsense and inaccuracies of Calculo.

And most are not to do with Coe if you look back carefully. If someone, anyone, is going to claim as a fact that Kiprop (or indeed any athlete) ran a 12.4 last 100m in a 1:43.1 800m, and it was actually outside of 13.0, then I'm not going to apologise for correcting that inaccurate piece of information. It is false, misleading and leads to others quoting it as a fact.

The subject of the thread, I thought had been dealt with!? At such moments no thread stays completely on track, pardon the pun. Many other athletes, including Snell, Cacho, Ngeny, Korir, etc, have also been brought up by various posters.

The OP states Manangoi 'CAN' run sub 46. That is an opinion based on something Manangoi stated in an interview, and is yet to be official and therefore factual. It remains the case that at present Manangoi has an official pb of 47.33 and also has a 46.5h as a supplementary piece of additional information. It should be noted that on the All Athletics website, his listed 400pb is 47.33 with 46.5 listed below it as a hand time. Even more strange is that the same site lists his 800 pb as 1:44.8H, whereas the IAAF profile has no 400pb given and an 800pb of 1:46.22FAT, set after the 1:44.8 hand timed run!? So it would appear that the IAAF hasn't recognised his hand timed 1:44.8 as an official pb either.

You must also realise that any discussion about a middle distance runner with great marks at 400 and 1500 is also going to throw up others with similar attributes and times. The point I and others have tried to make is that regardless of potential and what some athletes could run for 400m, of which there is no right answer, there has only been one who has officially recognised pbs of sub 47 for 400 and sub 3:30 for 1500. I'm sure that if Manangoi regularly runs 45 secs in training, then he'll have no problems jumping into a FAtimed 400 race next season to seal his claim of having the best combined times for the 2 events. He should then have no trouble running 1:41s and 1:42s as well.

Fortuna wrote:

Taorik wrote:

hello. another runer who has uber-47 second for 400m is algerian Taoufik Makhloufi. He is listed in our contry registry top-25 all-time junior with 46.41 outood best, ranking #18.

Please offer link to said list. I call BS

Strange how all these supposed 400 times of 46 seconds aren't listed anywhere official.

Managoi's 46.5 hand time doesn't count either. Fully automatic times are only ones listed in official annual lists. Otherwise anyone could offer a hand time pb they've done in training or some low league meet with no actual proof.

I concur. Never heard of Makhloufi running such a race. If he did it should be easy to find on internet!

Nick Willis has a 48.2 for Maklhoufi on his YouTube page. In a damn workout. Remember, Coe never had Makhloufi's speed.

gems burred.

I went off a bit too quick. I was timed at some crazy 300m split - 33 secs.. sebastian coe in his 400m 46x race.

that indicates to me that coe was 45 mid high in his prime.

even with altitude, a 46 in kenya at altitude is worth a 46 on a good track in the lowlands.

a 33 300m is a 22 flat followed by a 11 flat, which means coe struggled home with a 13 100m .

that's the 400 for you.

longjack wrote:

gems burred.

I went off a bit too quick. I was timed at some crazy 300m split - 33 secs.. sebastian coe in his 400m 46x race.

that indicates to me that coe was 45 mid high in his prime.

Agree. Don’t forget his 45.6 relay in June 81, when he stumbled at take over, turning a 2m lead into a 4m deficit, and was practically stationary when his split started. This was 90 mins after front running a 1:44.0 800m.

That relay was certainly worth sub 46.0 for an open 400m.

Deanouk wrote:

The OP states Manangoi 'CAN' run sub 46. That is an opinion based on something Manangoi stated in an interview, and is yet to be official and therefore factual. It remains the case that at present Manangoi has an official pb of 47.33 and also has a 46.5h as a supplementary piece of additional information. It should be noted that on the All Athletics website, his listed 400pb is 47.33 with 46.5 listed below it as a hand time. Even more strange is that the same site lists his 800 pb as 1:44.8H, whereas the IAAF profile has no 400pb given and an 800pb of 1:46.22FAT, set after the 1:44.8 hand timed run!? So it would appear that the IAAF hasn't recognised his hand timed 1:44.8 as an official pb either.

What is an official pb? Please explain. Thanks.

there's nothing like it wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

The OP states Manangoi 'CAN' run sub 46. That is an opinion based on something Manangoi stated in an interview, and is yet to be official and therefore factual. It remains the case that at present Manangoi has an official pb of 47.33 and also has a 46.5h as a supplementary piece of additional information. It should be noted that on the All Athletics website, his listed 400pb is 47.33 with 46.5 listed below it as a hand time. Even more strange is that the same site lists his 800 pb as 1:44.8H, whereas the IAAF profile has no 400pb given and an 800pb of 1:46.22FAT, set after the 1:44.8 hand timed run!? So it would appear that the IAAF hasn't recognised his hand timed 1:44.8 as an official pb either.

What is an official pb? Please explain. Thanks.

An ‘official’ 400m pb would be one achieved in a properly ratified meet with fully automatic timing (FAT), so that it is measured to nearest 0.01secs, as opposed to a time achieved in training, on a relay or in a non ratified competition or one where only hand timed marks were given.

Deanouk wrote:

there's nothing like it wrote:

What is an official pb? Please explain. Thanks.

An ‘official’ 400m pb would be one achieved in a properly ratified meet with fully automatic timing (FAT), so that it is measured to nearest 0.01secs, as opposed to a time achieved in training, on a relay or in a non ratified competition or one where only hand timed marks were given.

That's the definition of the IAAF? Please show. Thanks.

Coe's 1:44.0 and 1:44.7 are not official? Ovett's first world record in the Mile of 3:48.8 is not official?

Oh, this definition just holds true for the 400m? Not for longer races? This would be even more strange.

46.5 hand timed is still definitely sub 47. I don't know what hand timers everyone else has encountered, but 0.5+ second error on a 400m is unlikely by even an amateur time keeper. IAAF lists it for a reason.

In my books the only two men under 47 and 3:30 officially are Seb and Manangoi, unless someone has evidence of Makh doing so also (he's definitely capable).

there's nothing like it wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

An ‘official’ 400m pb would be one achieved in a properly ratified meet with fully automatic timing (FAT), so that it is measured to nearest 0.01secs, as opposed to a time achieved in training, on a relay or in a non ratified competition or one where only hand timed marks were given.

That's the definition of the IAAF? Please show. Thanks.

Coe's 1:44.0 and 1:44.7 are not official? Ovett's first world record in the Mile of 3:48.8 is not official?

?

Ovett’s first mile WR was in 1980, and at the time all marks beyond 400m were rounded up to nearest tenth for world record purposes. Likewise, although Coe’s FAT for his 79 800m WR was 1:42.33, it was listed as 1:42.4.

Not sure which race you are referring to when stating Coe’s 1:44.0? If it’s the one I mentioned in early 81, then the actual official time was 1:44.06, I just took the time to the 1st d.p.

Manangoi ran a 46.5 hand timed 400m at altitude in a low key meet. Obviously there needs to be a permit or certification that times are FAT for them to stand on yearly lists.

ex-runner wrote:

46.5 hand timed is still definitely sub 47. I don't know what hand timers everyone else has encountered, but 0.5+ second error on a 400m is unlikely by even an amateur time keeper. IAAF lists it for a reason.

In my books the only two men under 47 and 3:30 officially are Seb and Manangoi, unless someone has evidence of Makh doing so also (he's definitely capable).

Does the IAAF list Managoi’s time of 46.5 on the yearly lists though?

I don’t think they listed it on such a list or as his pb when I looked at it last year!?

Maybe it does now?

Deanouk wrote:

there's nothing like it wrote:

That's the definition of the IAAF? Please show. Thanks.

Coe's 1:44.0 and 1:44.7 are not official? Ovett's first world record in the Mile of 3:48.8 is not official?

?

Ovett’s first mile WR was in 1980, and at the time all marks beyond 400m were rounded up to nearest tenth for world record purposes. Likewise, although Coe’s FAT for his 79 800m WR was 1:42.33, it was listed as 1:42.4.

Not sure which race you are referring to when stating Coe’s 1:44.0? If it’s the one I mentioned in early 81, then the actual official time was 1:44.06, I just took the time to the 1st d.p.

Manangoi ran a 46.5 hand timed 400m at altitude in a low key meet. Obviously there needs to be a permit or certification that times are FAT for them to stand on yearly lists.

18.05.1985

07.06.1980

Ovett's 3:48.8 was hand timed, it was not rounded from a FAT. Even Coe's first indoor world record was hand timed.

Deanouk wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

46.5 hand timed is still definitely sub 47. I don't know what hand timers everyone else has encountered, but 0.5+ second error on a 400m is unlikely by even an amateur time keeper. IAAF lists it for a reason.

In my books the only two men under 47 and 3:30 officially are Seb and Manangoi, unless someone has evidence of Makh doing so also (he's definitely capable).

Does the IAAF list Managoi’s time of 46.5 on the yearly lists though?

I don’t think they listed it on such a list or as his pb when I looked at it last year!?

Maybe it does now?

They put his pbs down as 46.5h and 47.33fat

You know as well as I do that hand timing is perfectly legitimate and usually within 0.2-0.3s of a FAT time. That's huge over 100m, hence they are nonsense. but for 400m or 800m its fine.

This study looks at the accuracy of complete novices to hand held timing, not trained officials. Absolute errors were around +-0.2s

There is no way that 46.5 isn't sub 47 and I'll go as far as to say that Manangoi claims to have run 45.5-46.0 at other meetings in Kenya which won't have been submitted to the IAAF and he's probably telling the truth.

It was in the context of him stating how running 400m in those times got him nowhere because it's too poor to win anything.