Training Log for a 2:30ish Boston Marathon 2018

And just like that, my Boston cycle is over after a very promising 15k just a couple of weeks ago. Tendinitis in my lower left leg has simply hampered my training too much for me to feel that I can go to Boston and have a legitimate shot at competing for a top 3 age group finish. On the one hand, it is a shame because my fitness is such that I felt like I was in a good position to perform. On the other, I have already run Boston once and achieved what I wanted there, so it isn't like I am missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. In fact, if I really want to get under 2:30, I am probably better off saving my powder for a race on a faster course.

As to Run Medic's question, I would not go out slower than goal pace for those early miles. I know that you hear a ton about not overdoing it those downhill miles out of fear of burning your quads out for later in the race, but not overdoing it and going out appreciably slower than goal pace are two very different things.

Now take that with a grain of salt, because even though I had a good race last year, I also ended up cramping up by mile18 and had to stop to stretch repeatedly over the last 8.2 miles and split 1:15/1:19 or so. But those were calf cramps from chronic electrolyte depletion compounded by a warm day, not quad cramps from hitting the downhills too hard. Were I running again this year and shooting for a sub 2:30, given that I think I am in 2:28 high to 2:29 low shape on a flat course, I would have gone out at 1:14 to 1:14:20, planned on giving back 60 to 90 seconds from 18 to the top of Heartbreak, and then tried to hold pace or moderately increase the pace (over average goal pace)by feel from the back side of Heartbreak Hill through the finish.

Planning on making up a ton of time the last 5 miles of a marathon seems ill-advised to me. No matter how fit you are, those last few miles are going to be a dog fight filled with lots of biting if you are running anywhere near your top end. To expect them to be the best part of your race is a very risky proposition.

Smoove, sorry to hear you won't be there. Thanks for your contribution to the thread.

Part of the reason to go appreciably slower than goal pace is because of the crowd at the start, especially if you arent in Corral 1. Having tried to go out at goal pace from Corral 4, I know I would have been a lot better off resigning to lose 20-30 seconds on the early miles than fighting tooth and nail to go out 10 seconds slow. A big part of why myself and others believe in a slow start, is because it keeps people physically and mentally relaxed on the downhill at the start which saves their quads. This is especially true for people who are expecting to dramatically outperform their qualifying time. I think if you time trialed the course without the crowd (like elites can), starting at goal pace would be much more reasonable.

I agree on the last 5 miles, I'm hoping to shave 15 seconds TOTAL off goal pace after mile 21 and that seems ambitious. Last year I was passing people and 4 of my 7 slowest miles were after heartbreak. Clint Wells got a lot of credit, rightfully so, for his masters victory in the heat in 2016. He crushed a lot of people over the final miles and was hailed as having run an incredibly smart race. His slowest 5k though was from 35k to 40k on one of the biggest downhills of the course, right where everyone thinks their going to "make up time."

Everyone looks at Boston and sees a downhill course, they hear about losing time on the hills and they wonder "where do I make up that time on the downhills." The answer is, "You don't."

"Overall, on a calm and nice day, and with a nice steady effort, the Boston course can allow you to run a little more than a minute faster than a perfectly flat course will allow.The key is to do some training over undulating terrain, including some prolonged gradual downhill running so your legs are used to doing that and will not let you down over the Boston course."

-Jack Daniels

I was fortunate to start in Corral 1 and, because a friend was able to get me a John Hancock pass, to get into the school and then be brought in before the other people in Corral 1. It was still a zoo over those first few miles!

But as I said, I went out in 1:15:08 (off of a 2:30 seed time from a flat course race (another race in which my calves cramped on me)) expecting to run about 2:32 and that felt about right.

Unfortunately, the cramping meant I ran a positive split with a 1:19:32 second half; but I actually made up quite a few spots and moved up to third place in my age group in the second half of the race despite that big positive split. But for the cramping(I know, I know), I feel pretty good about that approach of trying to run about 1:15/1:17, and would have shot for 1:14/1:16 this year if the weather turned out to be conducive to fast times.

I will say that your strengths as a runner probably come into play here. I was historically a track oriented 5000m runner with a long track stride who relied upon good track rhythm on his good days. That long stride has always lent itself to strong downhill running and ability to let my legs turnover without a lot of breaking. If I was built more compactly and had a shorter stride, I would probably approach the down hills more conservatively.

What are you guys running this weekend? I'm not tapering until next week, looking at running a 20 miler this weekend. I think most runners taper too much. 3 week taper is never needed.

HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:

"Overall, on a calm and nice day, and with a nice steady effort, the Boston course can allow you to run a little more than a minute faster than a perfectly flat course will allow. The key is to do some training over undulating terrain, including some prolonged gradual downhill running so your legs are used to doing that and will not let you down over the Boston course."

-Jack Daniels

I don't doubt this. Imagine the average winning time if Boston had pacers. I think 2011 where Ryan Hall was a defacto pacer showed what could happen on that course with good conditions some pacers.

It’s no CIM that’s for sure. But yah ryan hall ran fast one year.

Smoove

Bummer,,, your 15k was bad ass. I think you looked like sub 2:30 casual. Maybe chicago or CIM?

For the guys hoping to break 2:30 at Boston I hope you crush it. The last 10k is brutal for me. I've been in striking distance of 2:28 at Boston with 10k to go and fade really hard on the downhillls. I've only seen a few guys blaze those last 6.2 miles. It isn't easy. I ran chicago this past year and I'll take a flat 10k over any sort of drop in elevation. My PR at chicago is 6 minutes faster than Boston in similar shape and similar conditions. The first 10 miles of Boston are certainly fast, but the next 16 miles are tricky for me. It's 26.2 miles no matter how you slice it.

Hi,

I ran Boston in 2015. I remember i were hard conditions. Wind, cold, rain. I didn't manage to perform as planned nut it was a nice experience. This year i am racing Hamburg with a goal to run sub 2:30. Made a short video of my latest long run. Good luck to all performing in Boston.

Link to video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXtJsmFJb1Y

Smoove, as Boulderunner said; I'm very sorry to hear you won't be out there on the course. I've definitely gotten a lot of inspiration from your threads and comments over the years.

Thank you all for the responses. I guess I should clarify; when I said give up a few minutes between miles 16 and 21, I mean at most 2 minutes total, or roughly 20-25 seconds per mile. Last year I remember feeling great at mile 18 thinking I could just hammer the uphills and then really hammer the downhills for a massive negative split... Of course this did not end well, and I ended up running 2:59:xx, but know I could have done far better.

Coming off of a few good HMs this winter, I think I'm just going to go for it, trying to stay relaxed coming out of corral 5, and settling into my goal pace, and just holding on for dear life until the end. I'm definitely more confident about my training this year, averaging more than 25 miles per week more than last year, and actually doing some quality specific workouts.

Best of luck to everyone!

reed wrote:

I was having a solid week until Friday night...picked up something fierce and I've basically been couch-ridden for 2 days now.

M short on time, only 7.3 miles easy

T traveling for work, 10 miles in some sketchy Los Angeles neighborhoods

W 11.2, doubled 5+6. short on time but got in an early morning and a late night run

Th 14 w/3x2mi MP, 1mi float. windy but did about 5:51, 5:49, 5:46. floats in 6:10ish. total 14mi at 6:18 avg

F 5+8 double, 12.8 total. then got sick

Sa off, sick (planned 12mi easy)

Su off, sick (planned 21mi with 4x4k MP or faster with 1k floats)

total 55 miles. bummer that I missed basically my only marathon specific long workout. Will try to do a long run workout midweek if I recover from this sickness. Don't have much time for any more than one more.

Okay folks I need some workout advice. The above post was last week, and I've still been sick until today.

Haven't run since Friday and it's Thursday...starting to feel weird about it. Anyway, I haven't really done any long runs with portions at MP yet so I'm planning to hit one this Saturday.

What would you guys do if you were me? my only hard long runs so far have been:

a 50k trail race (basically a 4.5hr hilly long run)

10mi race as a progression run in 15mi run (6:05 avg, last few miles at MP)

a half marathon time trial (real race but solo effort) at 5:36/mi, 19mi total

60min fartlek avg 5:50s in 14mi run

20 miler with hills. about 45min in the middle around 6min pace

14mi w/ 3x2mi MP, 1mi mod (see quoted post above)

Writing it all out makes it seem like more than it really was. I'm looking for a last minute fitness boost without wearing me out. I'll be VERY FRESH for this workout, literally no miles on my legs going into it. However, I may not be fully recovered from my flu. I won't know until I start trying to run fast on Saturday.

@reed, I would be reluctant to try and kill a long run after nearly a week off. It's going to take you some time to get your legs back under you and so I would look at doing 18-20 at a relatively easy pace, maybe pick up the last 5 if you have the energy. The last thing you want is a sufferfest.

I would then try to get in as many 1 hour - 10 mile runs as you can between that long run and 4/8 (Sunday before Boston). Consistency is your best bet IMO.

@Smoove, really sorry to hear about your injury. Your fitness was definitely there. Maybe after a quick recovery break you'll come back even more motivated.

@thread, I bailed on this thread because I burned myself out on running last year and I needed a break, so sorry for not updating like I promised. I ended up with a 2:34:10 in Tokyo, although there's no point in talking about my training since I just hung on from what I believe was 2:28-2:27 fitness in December. Similarly, there's no real point in talking about my Boston training because I've had like 4 weeks to throw crap at the wall and see what sticks. I have run a couple of fartlek/progression type workouts averaging 5:45-5:55 , but I haven't tested whether I can hold that pace consistently. Hoping to run sub-2:35 though.

After Beantown I'm going to fun run for a couple months and hopefully prep for a sub-2:30 attempt in Chicago.

Hey reed, I'm just a slower guy who follows this thread, so take it for what it's worth. But I was sick in Feb. for a week and a half. I ran in that time but only short and easy. Did an 18.5 mile steady long run a couple days after feeling better, but on the run I felt like Death. I was committed on a big loop and that was really stupid.

Is there any way you can go medium long on Saturday, maybe test things with a light fartlek or something, and then do a true long run with quality in the middle of the week? In hindsight, that is what I should have done.

The flu will drag you down for a long time. Are you sure you got it or a bad cold?

I'd do the long run, finish last 10k at MP instead of 50% of the run. Next week, do a long tempo at MP. Take your own advice from bruin1996's thread, and taper very little.

Andy, there's some chance I may elect to run Chicago if my motivation wanes over the next couple of weeks and I don't feel ready to run Ottowa or Grandmas. It's a cheap race for me since I have in-laws in Chicago. I'll reach out and let you know if I decide to do that and maybe we can hook up for that sub 2:30 effort if I do. If there is a course to do it on, that's definitely the one (weather permitting).

Smoove, sorry to read about your troubles. Assuming you get over this quickly, how does one recalibrate from being on the cusp of a taper period to adding another ~2 months to the cycle?

Well, that's a great question. I actually haven't done any running workouts since 5 weeks out and because of my racing schedule, I missed a few key workouts, so I never felt like I was that close to peaking, even though I was racing about as fast as I could reasonably expect to race (peaking or not).

My plan would be to lay low the rest of this week, cross train the following week, the build running volume up while still cross training starting two weeks from now. At that point, I'd jump into the more manageable workouts I normally do (3-4 x 2 miles, etc.) and would try to incorporate 3-4 of the big, long run workouts in until about two weeks out and then taper.

It would be a little teicky, but the fact that I'm not looking to build much fitness but rather recapture a hint of lost fitness and stretch my existing fitness from half marathon fitness to marathon fitness would make it achievable, I think. But that's only if I can start running normally in another 10 days or so.

Things seem to be coming together for me. I have always struggled to hit Daniels I pace in workouts and doing "R" work after "I" basically turns into shorter "I" work. Not tonight! 3 x 1600 @T (5:43 average) with 1 min rest, 3 x 1000 @I (3:13 each) 2 min rest, 3 x 400 @R (72 average) 400 jog rest. The 400s were supposed to be at 70 but I have never touched the R pace at the end of a workout and this is the closest Ive come. I'm getting very excited, I think this 2:35 is really gonna happen. A year ago the T was the same but the I was 3:16 average for Ks and 75 for R. Huge confidence booster to know that my V02 Max isnt drastically lagging behind my marathon fitness.

@Reed I personally think you cant really add anything at this point so trying to make up for lost time will only hurt you in the long run. Your half shows your fit, just try not to F*** it up at this point. I know we train very differently but Im doing 17 with 3 x 2 mile at threshold on Monday for what its worth.

OK everyone. I've been a long time reader of this thread. Time to throw my training to you all and see what you think. Below is a lot of info.

The first set is the last 14 weeks training for Boston 2018. The second set of data is a 16 week training cycle from my marathon PR (2:38 at Grandma's Marathon 2011). The last set is my most recent marathon and Boston qualifier (2:52 at 2016 Columbus Marathon).

Some real quick background that you can probably get from the info below. I'm incredibly inconsistent. Between work, being a husband, father to 2 girls, and coaching basically year round, I rarely find any time for consistency. Back in 2011 I had ideal conditions for Grandma's and just had one of those days where everything clicked. My 2016 Columbus was run with basically the goal of running a qualifying time, that is it. I ran an 5 minute negative split. That race got me into Wave 1 Corral 2. I have no clue how to attack Boston or what my goals should be. I'm here for suggestions. Let me hear it! And thank you in advance if you can read everything below!

2018 Boston Training (33 years old)

Week-Mileage/Days-Notes/Workouts/Long Runs/Races

1- 53 in 6- 14 mile long run

2- 54 in 6- 10 mile progression - last 2 sub 6, 14 mile long run

3- 56 in 6- 5 mile tempo in 29:00, 16 mile long run

4- 61 in 6- 7 mile MP run at 5:45 average, 16 mile long run

5- 59 in 6- 6 x 1 mile in 5:15 (2:00 rest), 18 mile long run

6- 62 in 6- 10 mile tempo in 58:20, 18 mile long run, 8 hilly miles at 6:15 avg

7- 25 in 4- Minor quad injury results in 2 unplanned days off

8- 61.5 in 6- No workouts, 18 mile long run in 6:35 pace

9- 55 in 6- 4 x 2 mi in 10:50 (2:00 rest), Failed long run workout (only did 12)

10- 63 in 6- 10 mi prog (last 5 in 30:00), 10 x 800 in 2:29 avg (2:00 rest), 10 mile race in 54:26 (strong headwind last 5)

11- 67 in 6- 8 x downhill mile in 5:29, 15 (with 5k in 16:40) and 20 miles on weekend

12- 56 in 4- Stomach bug for 2 days, 16 miles at 5:56 on Saturday, 20 easy on Sun.

13- 65 in 6- 3 x 3 miles with 1 easy in between (16:39-6:14-16:26-6:34-16:48), 20 easy (6:50)

14- 61 in 6- Failed 10 mi T (goal was 10 @ 5:45, felt off, 5 @ 5:41), 16 hilly (6:30s)

2016 Columbus Training (31 years old)

Week-Mileage/Days-Notes/Workouts/Long Run/Races

1- 28 in 4- In Eugene!!!

2- 34 in 6- Butte 10k in 35:23, 4x400 fast at Nike!, 1 mi race in 4:55 on Hayward!

3- 26 in 5- No workouts

4- 51 in 7- 5k in 17:16, 16 mile long run

5- 34 in 6- No workouts

6- 48 in 6- 10k in 36:09, 16 mile long run

7- 29 in 4- No workouts

8- No logging- I would guess I wasn't running more than 2-3 days

9- No logging- a week during this period. Probably very similar to

10- No logging- the other weeks.

11- No logging-

12- No logging-

13- 23 in 3- 16 mile long run

14- 32 in 3- 5 x 1k in 5:20 pace, 16 mile long run

15- 25 in 3- 12 mile long run

16- 38 in 3- Columbus Marathon (1:28:10 + 1:23:39 splits)

2011 Grandma's Marathon (26 years old)

Week-Mileage/Days-Notes/Workouts/Long Runs/Races

1- 39 in 5- 3 mi at 5:50, 10 Mile race in 57:30

2- 34 in 4- 16 mi long run workout

3- 48 in 5- 8 x 800 @ 2:30, 21 miler last 4 in 6:29-6:09-5:48-5:43

4- 48 in 6- 16:00 outdoor 5,000 race, 18 mile long run

5- 51 in 5- 4 mi at 5:50, 1:15 ORRRC Half

6- 42 in 6- 4 x 1 mi in 5:00

7- 0, yes 0- No running, Coaching duties!

8- 30 in 4- 12 mile "long run"

9- 22 in 2- 1:22 Flying Pig Half

10- 34 in 5- No workouts

11- 58 in 7- 2 x 3 mi @ 6:00, 16 x 400 @ :75

12- 33 in 5- 16:06 5k

13- 39 in 5- 16 at 6:50

14- 61 in 5- 16:05 5k, 50k in 4:04 (7:50 pace)

15- 41 in 7- No workouts

16- 50 in 5- Grandma's Marathon (1:19:33 + 1:19:26 splits)