Why do high school kids need a national championship?

You sound like an angry depressive collegiate type that just took his first socialist economics class.

Lighten up.

Luv2Run wrote:

I totally agree we need to develop kids, but I do not see that a high school XC championship stunts development.

I think a stronger argument can be made at championships for younger kids. Aside from women's gymnastics and diving I cannot see a reason to have a national championship before the age of 16. In fact, many sports have dropped the younger age championships because they tend to promote single sport specialization.

Now I can understand if a HS coach is burning out his/her kids to reach Footlocker or Nike but is there any evidence this is happening?

While it is not causation, I think the fact that the US is now very strong in the distance events belies your argument. Maybe having a national championship helped the sport?

First off one Olympics does not prove that the USA is strong in distance running.

Second how many of those people who medaled for the USA ran in either footlocker or nxn nationals? A quick search of Matt Centrowitz showed no evidence of his participation.

Luv2Run wrote:

I totally agree we need to develop kids, but I do not see that a high school XC championship stunts development.

I think a stronger argument can be made at championships for younger kids. Aside from women's gymnastics and diving I cannot see a reason to have a national championship before the age of 16. In fact, many sports have dropped the younger age championships because they tend to promote single sport specialization.

Now I can understand if a HS coach is burning out his/her kids to reach Footlocker or Nike but is there any evidence this is happening?

While it is not causation, I think the fact that the US is now very strong in the distance events belies your argument. Maybe having a national championship helped the sport?

Yes there is lots of evidence of "HS coach is burning out his/her kids to reach Footlocker or Nike."

I just finished reading several articles about California teams basing their season on nationals and having very few that went on to do or even run in their later high school years.

One article mentioned that top junior high school girl runners were more numerous than sophomores and above. They are maxed out before reaching their junior or senior year and most quit the sport then.

How many high school boys ran under 4 minutes in recent years and have not helped us at all internationally? I'm just getting started and you guys disagree with ol' Iron Mike?

All the NXN and Footlocker meets do is encourage kids to race all year long without any breaks.

I am not so much against national championships for high school kids as I am seeing them run top-level races from January to December! I mean ~seriously~ you have national meets for both track & field and cross country in December!!!

That kind of schedule is also too much for 25 year olds let alone high school kids.

America USES their high school kids we do not develop them.

That's my opinion~!!!~

(The solution is to make the high school season mean something and get rid of all the extra stuff.)

MikeDitka85DaBears wrote:

All the NXN and Footlocker meets do is encourage kids to race all year long without any breaks.

No. The rise of indoor track as a serious competitive season is encouraging kids to race all year without breaks.

Fm coaches actually make it clear they train year round for xc nationals. At nationals the team statement is always “next years starts tomorrow”. I’m sure there are other coaches that do to. The kids go all 4-5 years of high school without a break from focusing on running and chasing nationals - they do ploys, lifting, cross training and high mileage, hard sprints, time trials all the time. They have to be on every practice. Of course they enjoy the freedom and time off once they get to college.

indoor wrote:

MikeDitka85DaBears wrote:

All the NXN and Footlocker meets do is encourage kids to race all year long without any breaks.

No. The rise of indoor track as a serious competitive season is encouraging kids to race all year without breaks.

What part of "January to December" do you not understand?

Rising sh wrote:

Fm coaches actually make it clear they train year round for xc nationals. At nationals the team statement is always “next years starts tomorrow”. I’m sure there are other coaches that do to. The kids go all 4-5 years of high school without a break from focusing on running and chasing nationals - they do ploys, lifting, cross training and high mileage, hard sprints, time trials all the time. They have to be on every practice. Of course they enjoy the freedom and time off once they get to college.

Yes you get it.

There is a push for the ol' D1 scholarship. "You gotta run fast as a junior or colleges will ignore you."

Also "well I made it to NXN nationals, let the coaches come running to me."

D1 coaches can spot talent and fast times do not always guarantee a spot on their roster. You must market yourself as many D1 coaches will not seek you out because they believe it is a "****shoot."

What are the prime years for a runner? Is it between 16-18? 18-22? 22-25? 25-28?

I say more likely the 25-28 category and even later as it takes time to build the base, know how to have a race strategy that works, and be a consistent good runner. In addition the young athlete is going to be more emotional than an older athlete. It's nice to be full of that "greased lightning," but hard to keep it up over the years with injury, illness, and staleness.

I couldna believe it wrote:

How about an "international"high school football championship? Are you kidding me? XC makes sense, but not football. Are these parents so desperate to get another shiny trophy for the kids?

Sorry for the slight detour but this really annoys me. It's true, US v. Canada in football...stupid.

A true championship would be impossible for high school football.

FL is a great idea. Nations best individuals racing for the title.

Team tile is just dumb. Too many teams, different rules, too many differences. It’s dumb.

FL is ok wrote:

FL is a great idea. Nations best individuals racing for the title.

Team tile is just dumb. Too many teams, different rules, too many differences. It’s dumb.

That's silly, man. Footlocker provides an opportunity for those guys who don't have good teams.

NXN is the national championship for the d*mn sport. XC is a team sport, like it or not. Why would you train and race for one set of rules, then completely change the rules for the national championship?

NXN makes perfect sense. And so does Footlocker.

They both fulfill their respective purposes.

fsdfsde wrote:

https://media.makeameme.org/created/please-tell-me-5a20f8.jpg

I just realized how much jamin resembles Gene Wilder.

Ah but high schoolers you still have not answered the question of the OP. Why do we need the national championships? How are they helping today's runners?

The problem is after the top 5-8 teams a theory of the teams aren not really that good. There are lots of average kids on this teams filling out their rosters. Tons of average hs runners competing in a “national championship”. It’s stupid for them to fly across the country to race. They just aren’t great runners. Outside of the inequitys of teams from different states, more than 2/3 of the teams probably don’t even peak for this race. It’s a cool event for kids, but I’m guessing very few squads Truly care how they finish. And I’d bet only 5 teams actually train for the course and to peak at the national meet.

Well why go to a fine restaurant when you could just stick something in the microwave? Why go to the park and fly a kite when you could just pop a pill?

You are flat wrong. wrote:

FL is ok wrote:

FL is a great idea. Nations best individuals racing for the title.

Team tile is just dumb. Too many teams, different rules, too many differences. It’s dumb.

That's silly, man. Footlocker provides an opportunity for those guys who don't have good teams.

NXN is the national championship for the d*mn sport. XC is a team sport, like it or not. Why would you train and race for one set of rules, then completely change the rules for the national championship?

NXN makes perfect sense. And so does Footlocker.

They both fulfill their respective purposes.

Team racing waters down the quality of the sport. It’s about how fast you run, not about some mediocre runner who can’t finish better than mid pack.

Coaches who focus on team are terrible for the sport and why their are club and private coaches stepping up to do the right thing.

There is one national champion, he who crosses the line first.

1 Chad Hall WE CA 15:20

2 Craig Forys NE NJ 15:24

3 Steve Murdock NE NY 15:25

4 Hassan Mead MW MN 15:28

5 Matt Tebo WE NM 15:28

6 Benjamin Johnson WE NM 15:31

7 Michael Cybulski WE CA 15:31

8 Matthew Centrowitz NE MD 15:34

9 Girma Mecheso SO GA 15:34

10 Colby Lowe SO TX 15:35

#8.

You are fake news.

FL is ok wrote:

You are flat wrong. wrote:

That's silly, man. Footlocker provides an opportunity for those guys who don't have good teams.

NXN is the national championship for the d*mn sport. XC is a team sport, like it or not. Why would you train and race for one set of rules, then completely change the rules for the national championship?

NXN makes perfect sense. And so does Footlocker.

They both fulfill their respective purposes.

Team racing waters down the quality of the sport. It’s about how fast you run, not about some mediocre runner who can’t finish better than mid pack.

Coaches who focus on team are terrible for the sport and why their are club and private coaches stepping up to do the right thing.

There is one national champion, he who crosses the line first.

Are you on crack? The main reason American public schools sponsor sports is to instill the values that go along with teamwork. If you don’t like that, stick to Club sports.

Crack is wack wrote:

The main reason American public schools sponsor sports is to instill the values that go along with teamwork. If you don’t like that, stick to Club sports.

Sports like xc and wrestling are scored as a collection of individuals. There is no teamwork involved like ball sports. While it is fun to be part of that team, what your teammates do during a race has absolutely no impact on what you do.

While team sports are great to learn all those life lessons, sports like xc, wrestling, tennis, and swimming give kids the opportunity to do a sport where they can be rewarded for their hard work without being dependant on others who may not have the talent or drive they do.

What I found great about running in high school was that I always got to compete and it was up to me how hard I worked whether I was successful. While I worked hard in basketball to be the teams best player, it was impossible to show that when a new coach came in my soph year and wouldn't play me until we got behind. Our team went from winning 80% of our games to winning 40%. I am sure there are thousands of other stories like that why people got into and were successful at running. It offers something a team sport can never do.