Road Racing and Training Thread Week Ending 11-5-17

Convexity wrote:

I surprised myself with an almost 5 minute negative split ...

Congratulations to you, also. As I recall, you were looking for a 1:28-ish half split? So, sub-3 finish today?

And congrats to RRR for a big win on a tough course. Been a good day, all around.

Allen1959 wrote:

Convexity wrote:

I surprised myself with an almost 5 minute negative split ...

Congratulations to you, also. As I recall, you were looking for a 1:28-ish half split? So, sub-3 finish today?

And congrats to RRR for a big win on a tough course. Been a good day, all around.

Yes, sub 3. Sub 2:55 actually. Today was my "Dad PR" meaning fastest since I got back into running post-having kids.

Felt really strong and just kept accelerating the last 10 miles. I don't know where that came from.

Followed a Pfitz program for the first time (really the first time I've ever followed a set training program for marathon). Wish I had done that sooner!

This thread is just the best. High tide raises all boats! And there is some good training and racing mojo going on last few months. Very good training.

Convexity wrote:

Yes, sub 3. Sub 2:55 actually. Today was my "Dad PR" meaning fastest since I got back into running post-having kids.

Ha! I like that. Took me 16 years to get back under 3 hours after my sons were born. A dozen slow marathons during those years.

My very first grandchild is 8 days old today -- maybe I can start logging "Granddad PRs" ...

Congratulations, again -- that big negative split is a great confidence-booster, no doubt!

Great running OR and RRR! Just having my pre-run coffee and I saw your great results. That’s a hell of a negative split, OR, enjoy the moment and the accomplishment! RRR-I want to run and drink beer in the Ozarks! Great win!

Congrats again RRR!

And OR! WOW! So impressed! Your half splits are faster than what I've ever run a half in! Nice job. And nice job knowing your body and training in what works for you! Congrats!

Congrats Convexity! Sub 2:55 is cooking

Great Races guys!

RNR, how many times have you broken the tape? It's a cool feeling, isn't it?

OR, 254, and perfect splits! 249 is around the corner!

I have won a few local 5ks and this. Wasn't a tape! It was a small affair I think 500ish in the half and at then end I was mixed in with the super slow 10kers who started 20mims after the half. They tried to give me a 10k finisher medal and the guy was like duuude he won the half brah.

RRR - They tried to do the same thing to me! Richmond has the half and the full, and people come in side-by-side. Gal gave me a half medal after I crossed. I did not even notice...too busy trying to eject snot and phlegm. Another gal came up to me and said, "You did the full, right?" I said yes and she handed me the correct medal.

Official results are up. I was third in M45-49. There is no masters division at Richmond, just straight age groups.

More comments later...

Convexity Great job yesterday on sub2:55 that's a killer "DAD" time.

Congrats to OR. I’m a big fan of his training. Mostly high-end aerobic runs and it paid off.

Thanks, too hot...it was my most meaningful and productive stint of training. No doubt, the endless hill climbs were a key factor. In the warmer temps, those runs were punishing.

Richmond is listed as a "rolling" course, and it is. To me, the key climb is from 16 to 18, and with a northerly breeze, it can be an issue. Honestly, I did not encounter a hill that really gave me any fits.

Okay, now for the full story...

As usual, sleep was not great the night prior, but I did get solid sleep on the penultimate night. Hotel room seemed fine, but then I woke up feeling hot. Here is the story with my watch...I forgot to bring my trusty alarm clock, and so I used the one in the room. This was one of those odd types that has a gray background with black numerals, and it could not been seen in the dark. So, I kept my Garmin on the nightstand. I woke up, and I thought I had pressed the button for the light, but it was the button that sets or turns off the chime feature (for mile splits, etc). Thus, I did not know it, but I went into the race with a silent watch. Also, it did not get the signal until well into the second mile. My watch shows 24.87 miles, and I figure I ran about 26.3, and so it picked it up about 1.5 in, but it seemed like more than that.

I ran along wondering why my watch did not chime, and then I figured it out after about four miles. Ran with a gal that said she was shooting for sub-3. Told her what happened with my watch, and so she gave me a few splits. I felt okay, but the watch thing threw me off. My running felt good, but I felt a little unsettled. Ran with her until about 7 or 8, keeping about 6:45 pace, and it felt pretty easy. Tossed my knit hat just after 8, and had my head band underneath. Ended up running with my little knit gloves the whole way.

The far side of the river was a bit dull, and I got a little bored. I caught a group of about eight runners, and overhead them talking about "2:55," and so I thought: "Let's see what can do with these guys." At 10 or 11, one of then, unfortunately, had to go. Yes, I saw him veer off into the woods to go pee-pee. He was right next to me (to my left), and I felt sorry for him. Amazingly, he caught back up to us about 4 or 5 miles later. Things shifted and changed with this group, with me being both toward the back and the front, but we went along toward the half mark and toward the long bridge over the James River (a key juncture). I saw that I was just under 1:28 at the half, and was glad I was feeling fine, but I was very much wanting to get to the two key spots that come later in the race: miles 16-18 after the bridge, which are mostly uphill, and then the north-facing (against the wind) 18-21 segment. I was not getting antsy, but I just really wanted to know the answer to the questions: would I survive or fade on the 16-18 climb? and how would it go once I am pointed straight north thereafter? I wanted to get to the meat of the race.

By now, we were in the mid-6:30s and rolling along. The run across the bridge felt good, and I was starting to feel like "outsiderunner." The guy who runs outside, and runs lots of hills. As I approached the 16 sign, I could see the pitch in the pavement, and I felt ready to go. As we went along, I could see guys start to fade on the incline. We a group of about 12 over the bridge, and I could sense things changing. I gravitated to the front, and spotted this guy (who has passed me earlier) up ahead. I thought: go for it. And I did. I dropped the group and caught the guy ahead. Ran right behind him until the turn just after 18. The climb went much better than I had thought. Ran 6:30-6:40 pace, and was happy about it, knowing that it was mostly uphill. I did not have split chimes, but did check my current pace occasionally, and whenever I did, the number displayed was encouraging. Since I began running with a GPS watch (three years ago), I have always used the mile splits, and nothing else. So, I was unaccustomed to this scenario, but was running fine. I really felt as if I were running by feel and it felt great.

After the roller in 19 (an overpass) I felt good, as it did not put a dent in me. There, I left that guy I had been running with and headed toward another group, a small one. I got to them (four guys), and felt good, but I had a decision to make. I knew the 20 marker would be coming, and I could feel a northerly breeze. Going into the race, I really wanted to push in the final 10k. I could either stick with these guys at 6:35-6:40 pace and cruise along, or I could go out on my own, and probably end up going solo the rest of the way, as things were really strung out at this point. Veering right, I went out on my own. I felt some breeze, but it did not bother me. As I got near the 20 mark, I could hear music playing. Prior to the race, I had hoped to hear some fast-paced, high-energy music in the last 10k, and, if I could pick one song, it would be "You Should be Dancing," from the film, Saturday Night Fever. As I approached the big speakers and the DJ, I could not believe it--they were blasting "You Should be Dancing." I ran by with a huge smile on my face, and, in slow ,clear words, I yelled to the spectators: "This is my favorite song!" At that moment, it surely was. I thought of Travolta "taking over" (as one character says in the film), and commanding that dance floor--solo. I ran along in the same manner, completely pumped.

I got to 21 feeling very good, and knew I had finally gotten to my southward turn. I had seen the 2:13:xx at 20, and wanted to build on that, but keep things within reason. By now, I had been waiting for a "wall" to come, but there was no sign of one coming. I was picking up speed, and started passing people, one by one. My joy was starting to build. Miles 22 and 23 went by without incident--and, best of all, no sign of a wall coming. I felt great, almost as if I were jogging. I could not believe it, as by now I was running 6:20s (though I did not know it at the time). I started checking my current pace, and would see "6:10" and "6:00," and would think: "That has to be wrong." This guy in a red singlet came up on me. These were the first footsteps I had heard in my final push. As he pulled up to me, I could tell he felt as fresh as I did. I ran with with for about a mile, and then let him go, as I had some slight soreness in my right calf, and did not want to risk things. I knew I was running a big PR. The 24th and 25th miles were just super. I started to feel my calf less, and just picked up some more speed. As I neared the 25 sign, I spotted a photographer on the right, and pumped my fist in sheer joy. The last 1.2 were indescribable. No wall at all, and just fast running. I headed home with this guy in a white shirt. I knew the final turn was coming and started to dig in. I heard a course marshall tell us "Six-tenths to go!" Could not believe how good I felt. Said to the guy next to me, "Come on, man." He looked at me with a stare and went with me. I spotted the clock and a huge feeling of joy filled my body. I was thinking 2:54, but the "2:52" overwhelmed me. We sprinted to the line. I felt I could have continued running.

As per my watch (again 24.87 miles), I went 6:32, 6:27, 6:22, 6:26, 6:19, 6:15, 6:14 in the last seven. Was 5:13 over that last .87, which included about an 8-second slow down to gather myself and stop the watch. By what I have calculated, I was under 6:00 in that last last mile (25.2-26.2)...probably around 5:45.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but it was a marathon. :-)

Great race, Convexity! Sub-2:55 is super!

All the best to you...

OR congrats on the result and it was fun to read. Mind if I ask you a few questions about your training? I'm a year or so older than you and I am curious about what you did in your training that got you to the level of fitness where you were able to have a strong finish like that? I see that the others mentioned hills. What kind of workouts and mileage? I plan to do a Spring marathon next year and I am looking at shooting for a 10-20min PR. I still have some time to plan out my marathon training plan. FWIW I got a late start and have only been running for about 2 years.

Thanks...

My training is pretty well documented here. You may check prior weekly threads, but I averaged about 60 miles per week for quite a good while, pretty much from mid-spring until my taper a couple of weeks ago. I probably averaged a tad more than that in spring than in summer/fall. Summer is tougher for mileage. The heat/humidity tends to cut down my long runs (I hate carrying water). In any case, I always do hills, as my area is hilly and they cannot be avoided. In the spring, I had a few peak weeks of 70+ miles, peaking at 78. This fall, I had a few 70+ mile weeks, and peaked at 75 miles. My intensity, overall, is probably a little higher than "normal" or "average," as I find slow (easy) running very boring. Thus, I do a lot of steady state running (about a minute or so back of 5k pace) instead. It seems that most people hardly do any steady state running (at least these days), as they prefer the extremes of going either hard (lactate threshold pace or faster) or easy (snail pace shuffling). There is an ocean between these two paces, and, for me, it always seemed strange not to do any training in between these paces.

Hills are like intervals in disguise. I am not a big fan of intervals (or at least conventional intervals), but most people think they are absolutely necessary. Instead, I do hills and finish my runs fast (nearly every run has some type of fast finishing). I rarely, if ever, get sore, and I enjoy keeping things simple and minimizing monotony. With regard to intervals (such as track intervals), they may be useful for you, but I rarely do them now, especially since my focus is on the marathon--and I run mostly for time, (as most of us older guys do). Intervals can really help with being able to surge (competing for place or position), and surging is pretty much the opposite of what I do, as I want to become proficient in perfecting a long steady stream of miles, which is what we do in marathons. Surge in a marathon, and you will pay the price. Keep it steady, even, controlled, and brisk, and you will succeed.

The most important thing is consistency, and many posters will agree on this. Right up there with consistency is overall weekly volume. If you keep your attention focused on these two things, you really cannot go wrong. So, run the miles (in all conditions, too..be ready for adverse weather...no retreating to the treadmill), be consistent, and get accustomed to finishing fast--just as you will in a race. If it is simply just too cold, then take a rest day. Many of my injuries have come on very cold days, and I believe all of my bad injuries have come in winter. I have a little (and very uninsulated) body. Also, long runs are important--a distance runner needs distance. Here and there, I do an entire week of double-digit runs, runs of 10 or more miles. I gather this does a number of things, but for me it mostly gets me used to the grind that is at the core of long distance running. And before I forget, I prefer the six-day schedule...give yourself a rest one day per week.

The key for me was probably the steady diet of steady state miles. The hills were important, too. The new road that opened here at the beginning of the summer really helped. I added it to my main long run route, which is already hilly, and it helped to break up the monotony and add an even more challenging hill to the mix. My wife calls it a "mountain." It is like a little ridge or mountain, actually. I had to go over that mountain many times to get to 2:52. In fact, on the drive home, I said "Thank you" to that hill as I drove past it.

All the best...

Congrats again OR!

Thanks for the long winded play by play. I for one enjoyed it.

Sorry I'm late to this party, but unfortunately it couldn't be helped.

OR, congrats on such an ideal race. Your report was great, too!

RRR on the podium!

Rest day for me but reading all this good news has got my legs itchy...

Thanks for the reply OR. I'm with you on the hills. Unfortunately, due to the lack of daylight for the next few months, my favorite hills are off the list for a while. At least for the weekday runs. I'm fortunate enough to live in an area with plenty of street lights, so when it is dark I stick to the roads that are lit.