David S. Pumpkins wrote:you may not live in a major city...
but yeah, I could be bourgie. I like a deal as much as the next guy, but there are some goood $8 drinks out there.
$11.50 for a beer at MSG IIRC.
David S. Pumpkins wrote:you may not live in a major city...
but yeah, I could be bourgie. I like a deal as much as the next guy, but there are some goood $8 drinks out there.
$11.50 for a beer at MSG IIRC.
HEY DAVID S. PUMPKINS. YOUR JOB IS TO SCARE PEOPLE.
Looks like this campaign worked, because the Letsrun boys are getting heated about it. Just like the NFL kneelers. Awareness raised.
BBOY SKELETON wrote:
HEY DAVID S. PUMPKINS. YOUR JOB IS TO SCARE PEOPLE.
Any questions?
Lol. Wasting your time and money with the "buy you a drink" line.
For all you guys out there first you have to feel the room out. Take notice of who's looking at you. You're not going to charm or impress a woman who has no interest. Once you see who's interested then a couple of glances and a smile will warm things up. Then the approach is the hardest part. Best way, walk by her heading towards the bar or restroom flashing more subtle eye contact and a smile. Then on the return is when to approach.
Tldr: read the signals and approach the interested ones.
vivalarepublica wrote:
Looks like this campaign worked, because the Letsrun boys are getting heated about it. Just like the NFL kneelers. Awareness raised.
So it's a success because many people are brushing it off?
Wingman wrote:
Lol. Wasting your time and money with the "buy you a drink" line.
For all you guys out there first you have to feel the room out. Take notice of who's looking at you. You're not going to charm or impress a woman who has no interest. Once you see who's interested then a couple of glances and a smile will warm things up. Then the approach is the hardest part. Best way, walk by her heading towards the bar or restroom flashing more subtle eye contact and a smile. Then on the return is when to approach.
Tldr: read the signals and approach the interested ones.
This only works for attractive people. Some of us have to rely on strategies like looking for women who appear to want to dance but have no one to dance with thus they will take just about any offer.
There is a lot of awareness being raised these days. Is there a list? Must be in the millions.
Lots of awareness to be raised. Raising awareness. How high?
All He Does Is Win wrote:
So we're basically back to 'think about how you behave towards other people'.
Not a very helpful message. The people who listen probably aren't dicks, and they people who are dicks wont listen.
My goal in continually replying in this thread is hopefully a guy who thought what he was doing was harmless will realize it isn't, and he'll stop it, or call out his friends on their garbage. "Think about how you treat other" isn't the whole message, it's more about maybe calling out someone's blind spot about how genuinely threatened or uncomfortable this shit can make them feel, and start to include that when you think about how you treat others.
All He Does Is Win wrote:
So we're basically back to 'think about how you behave towards other people'.
Not a very helpful message. The people who listen probably aren't dicks, and they people who are dicks wont listen.
But if the message was targeted only about sexual assault, the sexual assaulters would listen?
feyd rautha wrote:
All He Does Is Win wrote:So we're basically back to 'think about how you behave towards other people'.
Not a very helpful message. The people who listen probably aren't dicks, and they people who are dicks wont listen.
But if the message was targeted only about sexual assault, the sexual assaulters would listen?
And laws are all useless, because criminals are still going to commit crimes.
mdog wrote:
David S. Pumpkins wrote:The difference between something that gives you a confidence boost and gives a female the willies is probably related to the fact that you haven't experienced the physical side of harassment that can and does accompany the comments for women, or the fact that you're probably as big or bigger than the people making the comments. Context and setting have a lot to do with the difference between complimentary and creepy. You are in no position to tell someone in a different situation how they should feel. Their feelings are valid.
You are wrong. Just because you feel harassed does not mean you are. Creep is just a derogatory word for unattractive men. A white woman might genuinely feel scared or harassed if a dark skinned man approached her at night to say hello. It is fine (and correct) to tell that woman that she should not feel that way.
This. Just feeling harassed does not mean you were harassed. Harassment can only happen when you've asked the person to stop and they have not.
The distinction between sexual assault and sexual harassment is a legal definition that separates criminal conduct from conduct that is actionable only in a civil lawsuit brought by the victim or EEOC. But the underlying behavior and attitudes behind perpetrators of sexual harassment and assault are the same. The law may draw a bright line between the two actions (verbal and physical), but for the perpetrators, it is just a continuum of escalating advances. Put another way, there is no such thing as a pure sexual harasser who would never cross the line into sexual assault. That is because the goal of the sexual harasser is almost always to have sex with the victim. It is just a question of when the sexual harasser will convert his advances from verbal to physical and commit a sexual assault. So, asking women to only focus on sexual assault is basically asking them to completely ignore the all attitudes and behaviors that lead to sexual assault in hopes that there is such a thing as a pure sexual assaulter that can be separated out from people who sexually harass. There is no such thing. People who commit sexual assault are almost always sexual harassers too. So, if you want to end sexual assault, you also have to end sexual harassment.
Next steps? wrote:
Wingman wrote:Lol. Wasting your time and money with the "buy you a drink" line.
For all you guys out there first you have to feel the room out. Take notice of who's looking at you. You're not going to charm or impress a woman who has no interest. Once you see who's interested then a couple of glances and a smile will warm things up. Then the approach is the hardest part. Best way, walk by her heading towards the bar or restroom flashing more subtle eye contact and a smile. Then on the return is when to approach.
Tldr: read the signals and approach the interested ones.
This only works for attractive people. Some of us have to rely on strategies like looking for women who appear to want to dance but have no one to dance with thus they will take just about any offer.
#metoo
Precious Roy wrote:
The distinction between sexual assault and sexual harassment is a legal definition that separates criminal conduct from conduct that is actionable only in a civil lawsuit brought by the victim or EEOC. But the underlying behavior and attitudes behind perpetrators of sexual harassment and assault are the same. The law may draw a bright line between the two actions (verbal and physical), but for the perpetrators, it is just a continuum of escalating advances. Put another way, there is no such thing as a pure sexual harasser who would never cross the line into sexual assault. That is because the goal of the sexual harasser is almost always to have sex with the victim. It is just a question of when the sexual harasser will convert his advances from verbal to physical and commit a sexual assault. So, asking women to only focus on sexual assault is basically asking them to completely ignore the all attitudes and behaviors that lead to sexual assault in hopes that there is such a thing as a pure sexual assaulter that can be separated out from people who sexually harass. There is no such thing. People who commit sexual assault are almost always sexual harassers too. So, if you want to end sexual assault, you also have to end sexual harassment.
I don't disagree with any of this. The reason I think it is ineffective is that people KNOW that every woman has been sexually harassed, at some point. No one's happy about it. But if the purpose is to "raise awareness," it's like raising awareness that grass is green.
IndyJ wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:The distinction between sexual assault and sexual harassment is a legal definition that separates criminal conduct from conduct that is actionable only in a civil lawsuit brought by the victim or EEOC. But the underlying behavior and attitudes behind perpetrators of sexual harassment and assault are the same. The law may draw a bright line between the two actions (verbal and physical), but for the perpetrators, it is just a continuum of escalating advances. Put another way, there is no such thing as a pure sexual harasser who would never cross the line into sexual assault. That is because the goal of the sexual harasser is almost always to have sex with the victim. It is just a question of when the sexual harasser will convert his advances from verbal to physical and commit a sexual assault. So, asking women to only focus on sexual assault is basically asking them to completely ignore the all attitudes and behaviors that lead to sexual assault in hopes that there is such a thing as a pure sexual assaulter that can be separated out from people who sexually harass. There is no such thing. People who commit sexual assault are almost always sexual harassers too. So, if you want to end sexual assault, you also have to end sexual harassment.
I don't disagree with any of this. The reason I think it is ineffective is that people KNOW that every woman has been sexually harassed, at some point. No one's happy about it. But if the purpose is to "raise awareness," it's like raising awareness that grass is green.
Yes, exactly.
I don't disagree with you, Roy, but that isn't the point. The campaign isn't bad or wrong, it's simply a failure. It went too broad. It would be 100x's more powerful if it had narrowed its scope.
Truth is virtually every living person has been sexually harassed. Every single one of us could post "Me too," which leaves us with a watered-down version of something that could have been great.
We need to raise awareness of the harm of false sexual assault accusations. I've been falsely accused and it was devastating. If you've ever been falsely accused of sexual assault, rape, or just think your voice should be heard, join me in raising awareness.
#joinme
David S. Pumpkins wrote:
A bunch of men on the internet minimizing women's feelings and life experiences is exactly the sort of thing the campaign is trying to draw attention to.
I agree.
Women I've spoken to have applauded it.
I also can't believe a bunch of runners are equating their running experiences to harassment women face. I shouldn't be surprised by the childishness of the men on this site but I still am.
NONE OF US KNOW what women face every day. Instead of belittling, why not try to understand?
WTFBBQ wrote:
David S. Pumpkins wrote:A bunch of men on the internet minimizing women's feelings and life experiences is exactly the sort of thing the campaign is trying to draw attention to.
I agree.
Women I've spoken to have applauded it.
I also can't believe a bunch of runners are equating their running experiences to harassment women face. I shouldn't be surprised by the childishness of the men on this site but I still am.
NONE OF US KNOW what women face every day. Instead of belittling, why not try to understand?
You've got to be trolling. Nobody is belittling. And my gender precludes me from understanding? Surely you must recognize your own hypocrisy. Or does somehow having testes make sexual assault and harassment more acceptable?
sexual assault>>>harassment wrote:
You've got to be trolling. Nobody is belittling. And my gender precludes me from understanding??
Absolutely not trolling. And yes, going by the responses on here, it does seem to for some men.