Sub 1:10 Half Marathon Training

@Reed, just out of curiosity, what workouts have I posted that you think you couldn't do without a lot of effort when you were in 15:20 shape? I'm not trying to throw a jab, but I know people come from different backgrounds with different strengths/weaknesses, so I'm just wondering.

The 4 x 2 mile workout looked really solid. I wouldn't be too worked up about the rough showing yesterday on the longer intervals. Bad workouts come and go, right? Some of my best races have come shortly after mediocre-or-worse workouts.

With 3 weeks left, I might start thinking about shifting gears a little bit. This is probably the last week in which you can do a workout and expect it to have any kind of physiological effect; so maybe it is time to start backing things down a little and to start sharpening with some shorter and faster work.

I am still doing some threshold work, but over the last two weeks, I have shifted my emphasis to 5k paced oriented workouts, and will continue that trend for the next couple of weeks. Two weeks ago it was 5 x 1000 at 5k pace as my sole workout of the week, then last week it was 4 x 1200 at 5k pace as my primary workout, and then 1.5 miles up, 4 x 1 mile at threshold pace, 10.5 miles easy as my second workout/long run combo. I may not get two workouts in this week because of illness, so I am not sure what I will end up doing, but I really do like working at a pace faster than goal race pace the last few weeks of a cycle so as to make race pace feel more manageable on race day.

Easy with those hard long runs this close to the race. I had too many college teammates make that mistake and they would hit a point where they felt fatigued the rest of the season, good call on to make that your last hard one. Now might be a good time to start throwing in some nice Lydiard style sharpening work. I would also do a 2 mile or 5K time trial about 14 days out from the race. Think about doing a few days of hard short intensities with full recovery and some really slow easy runs on the other days (slightly slower than your normal recovery runs). You don't want to start feeling a stale from all of the threshold work so now is the time to sharpen.

Bill and Josh. You guys just don’t get it. Workouts do not make the runner. You can design your little 12-16 week micro cycles and run at race pace or faster all you want but if you haven’t put in a large base, as Peter Snell would say, it’s all bullshit.

Matthew D.,

Thanks for derailing every thread with your too hot alias. Was this Lydiard approach integral to your impeccable training strategy when you broke through and narrowly shattered the 3:10 barrier with a PR this year at Grandma's Marathon?

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Matthew D.,

Thanks for derailing every thread with your too hot alias. Was this Lydiard approach integral to your impeccable training strategy when you broke through and narrowly shattered the 3:10 barrier with a PR this year at Grandma's Marathon?

Haha you got the wrong guy.

I think not. But nice work on the PR! Hey, if you cut 90 seconds per mile, you'll be keeping up with the 46 year old that you're always stalking on here.

It was a nice thread, don't listen Lydiard-tards.

@Smoove and another runner - I'm switching gears, as you guys mentioned, and incorporating some shorter faster workouts. I was planning to do a VO2 max workout - 6-7x1K @ 5K pace w/2-3mins rest + 3-4x200 @ mile pace w/200m rest - on either 01/01 or 01/02 (most likely 01/02 considering New Year's). This will be 12 days out from the HM, which I figure is the latest I can still reap the physiological benefits of the workout. That will probably be my last hard work out.

For the shorter faster workouts, which would be today and/or 01/04, I was thinking of 16x400 starting @ 5K pace -74/75 secs - and working down to 3K pace - 69/70 secs - the last 6-8 reps. All w/1min rest + 4x200 @ mile pace w/200m rest. Or, maybe 10x600 @ 5K pace for the 1st 6 reps and working down to 3k pace or faster for the last 4 reps w/1:30 rest + 4x200 @ mile pace w/200m rest.

Thoughts on this? Do any of you guys have any good shorter faster distance workouts you like? Or any VO2 max workouts before a big race?

@too hot: there are many ways to skin a cat, many roads to Rome, etc. I hear you on the base, but I've upped my mileage more than I ever have and my long runs are farther and faster than ever. I know 75mpw isn't much for most, especially for HM marathon training, but it's an improvement from my previous training. I'm planning to either run Chicago Marathon 2018 or NYC Marathon 2018, so I'll be increasing my base anyways in the next 6-8 months. For now, I can't increase my base until after the HM.

Those sound like solid options for the next couplemof workouts. If I were to change anything about them, I might reduce the overall volume of those workouts some. That's a decent amount of work at a faster pace than you're used to fairly close to race day. I view these last couple of workouts to be more about rhythm and feeling fast than about getting any adaptation for race day. Basically, you want to feel quick and confident without over-exerting yourself. I think the 400s workout would so it for you just fine., but I'd probably wait until the last 3 or 4 before cranking down to 3k pace. With the 1000s/200s - I like that one too, but I'd probably do no more than 5 x 1000, and wouldn't be afraid to go as few as 4 x 1000 with the 200s before and after.

You're pretty damn fit right now and the only question is whether you are 1:09:xx fit. These last couple of workouts won't change the answer to yes, but they could change the answer to no if you strain something or otherwise leave yourself fatigued. Less is probably more for these last couple of weeks.

Again, recognize that this is coming from a guy who takes longer to recover than you do, so this colors my perspective some. Still, I'd err on the side of caution.

I was about to say almost the same thing. Us 10K types can really put ourselves over the edge with too much anaerobic work so you need to be careful not to overdo it. That's why I suggest some really easy aerobic jogging on the other days to even yourself out a bit.

It really depends on what you respond best to at this point, everyone is different. Really you're just trying to avoid getting stale. As far as workouts, I like something simple like 10 x 400. And I have seen really good results from doing a 2 to 3 mile solo time trial (without a sprint at the end) about 10 to 14 days before the big race. And of course don't cut down the mileage too fast these last few weeks.

I can't stress enough to not overdo it right now. Finish all your workouts like you could've done more.

SoFlo, I don't want to go back and look through all of your workouts, so instead I'll go through my own logs from the two times I was in roughly 15:20 shape and post what I recall as being my hardest workouts.

disclaimer, I was in 15:20 5000m shape, not road 5k shape. slight difference. I would've needed spikes, wide turns, and a pack to follow to hit 15:15-15:20.

10/17/2015 I raced an xc 8k in 25:39. flat course with good footing, but on a track it was probably worth 25:20 which is about equal to a 15:20. the course was baylands park at the santa clara bronco invite.

here are my notable workouts in the month(ish) prior. I got into shape quickly so the earlier workouts weren't that fast, but were good for me at the time. was doing about 70-75 mpw.

9/8 3x1k, 2x800, 2x600 (400 jog in ~2:20 for all rests). goal was 10k effort for 1000s and 800s, 3k effort for 600s. ran about 5:15-5:20 pace and then 5:05-5:10 pace for the two parts. this was all on grass.

9/15 4x2k at 10k effort, 3min jogs. dirt/roads. 6:51 down to 6:41, so all over 5:20 pace.

9/29 5x1mi (road, distance only accurate to within ~5sec). 3min jogs. 5:24, 5:24, 5:17, 5:12, 4:57. my log says best workout in months)

10/13 4x2k at 10k pace. 6:45, 6:52, 6:45, 6:28. dirt/roads. 3min jogs.

then the 8k was 10/17

10/20, 7x3min hard, 2min easy. 5:47 avg for whole thing, paces unknown. on thick grass.

10/30 8x2min/1min at about 5:00/7:20 paces. 5:38 avg. on turf.

11/3 4x2k (again). dirt/road loop. 6:42, 6:32, 6:26, 6:07. 3min jogs. best workout yet I think, and only my 2nd sub-5 mile of the season.

11/9 3200m time trial in 9:33. won the race, negative split and solo last half. 4:48/4:45ish splits

11/13 4x1600, 2k. wasn't feeling great. 5:12, 5:10, 5:04, 4:58, 6:37 (easy 2k effort)

11/17 7x3min/1min. 5:31s for 28min avg. about 5:20s to 4:50s for hard parts. on turf. felt great this day.

this post is getting too long so part 2 coming soon

part 2. sorry. this is just showing my workouts leading up to my 15:28 5k PR when I had good reason to think I couldve run 15:15-15:20. (on the track)

1/6 was first workout of the season. 6mi tempo 5:33s on rolling hills then 5x200m in 36ish

1/13 4x1600 5:18 down to 5:12. 10k pace. easy workout. 3min jogs, on track

1/20 6mi tempo 5:29s, rolling hills. then 8x200 over 2x hurdles per 200m in 38-39 (steeple practice)

1/23 17x400m. 14 were 75s, 3 were 70s. 1min rest

2/3 ladder 4-8-12-12-8-4 with equal timed rests then 3x300. 69, 2:25, 3:43, 3:43, 2:20, 64. 300s in 51, 49, 48.

2/10 4x1600 in 5:10-5:05. 3min. then 4x300 in 52s.

2/13 fartlek, 24min total at 5:25s on turf. ons build from 15sec to 2min then back down. offs were like 6:00 pace.

3/3 4x1600 5:03 avg and felt bad that day. 3min rest. track.

3/13 5000m in 15:31 with 4:50 closing mile. best race of my life. closed in a 65.

4/3 5000m in 15:28. still closed in a 65 but didnt feel as good as in the 15:31. out in 4:56/9:56

4/7 6x800 in 2:25s then 4x300 in 48s, fastest 45.8. 3min rest for 800s, 90sec for 300s.

4/14 2 sets of 4x300 in 49s. 1min rest, 5min between sets.

4/24 5x1600 in 5:03s, 5:06 down to 4:58. easyish workout. 3min rest

then my season ended. was going to race a 1500m and aim for 4:10 but got hurt.

Before my last 1:10 half I did a 7 mile progression 11 days out. Started around 6:10 finished around 5:10. Let’s you hit some HM pace and finish faster. This was a big confidence booster and not too draining.

After that the next workout was 800s at 5k pace

And then a light workout of 4 800s at HMP and 4 faster 200s.

I don’t need much more faster stuff than this. 1 5kpace / vo2 workout was plenty for me.

After a 1 week taper 5:25 pace felt like a jog.

I've been following this thread with some interest for a while now. SoFlo, is your goal race the Houston Half?

I personally think there is fitness to be gained in the last few weeks. You can easily go up a point or two on the VO2 scale with the proper anaerobic work. That will also push your lactate threshold up and make your half pace feel easier. Just don't overdo the volume in the last few weeks. And don't completely eliminate the work at HM pace.

Good luck.

I’ve also been following this for a bit and am training for the Houston half as well. Lots of our workouts are pretty similar. I’m finishing up my last big volume week today (90 miles with a day off this coming Sunday). I did my biggest long run of this cycle yesterday and it went well. I ran it all at a moderate pace and three in harder miles at 4, 10, and 16. Those were 5:16-5:18, and I averaged 5:44 for the entire run.

As far as workouts go for the remainder of time before Houston, my last intense workout will be on next Tuesday the 2nd, and that’ll be 6x1200m @ 5k pace with 3’ rest. The week of the race the following Tuesday, I’m planning on 6xmile with 1’ rest, and these are going to be lactate threshold repeats. I like a stimulus of the LT shortly before a race.

Really shooting for sub 68, but I’ve never raced a half before. Under 70 or under 69 is more realistic for me, but I hope the stars align on race day.

I really like the addition of faster miles during the long run. I’ve never done this for a half but seems like a great idea!

I often do it as part of a tempo long run combo. I did that on Wednesday - 7:12, 6:54, 6:32, 5:42, 5:21 (too fast), 5:27, 5:35, then 10.5 miles at 7:15 pace.

Something I picked up from Daniels' approach on marathon training, but something I've incorporated into my training for other events since I, as an older runner, like knocking out my tempo and long runs in the same day, giving myself more recovery days each week.

Smoove wrote:

I often do it as part of a tempo long run combo. I did that on Wednesday - 7:12, 6:54, 6:32, 5:42, 5:21 (too fast), 5:27, 5:35, then 10.5 miles at 7:15 pace.

Something I picked up from Daniels' approach on marathon training, but something I've incorporated into my training for other events since I, as an older runner, like knocking out my tempo and long runs in the same day, giving myself more recovery days each week.

You prefer doing the workout in the beginning of the long run? Wouldn't it be beneficial do to it at the end to get used to running fast on heavier legs?