In the NFL, it takes bravery to be respectful to our country

You pissed? If so, I'm happy you're pissed. Whatever Trumps shortcomings are, they pale in comparison to the corrupt, incompetent HRC (and her worthless family) that dare I say ............would have been your candidate. Or were you a Bernie supporter? The guy to honeymooned in the USSR? And who hasn't done a lick of work in his entire life? So which is it, HRC or Bernie?

Big Red wrote:

You show respect for your country by standing up for it's values, and for justice for all, as Colin Kaepernick has done.

You mean the "unemployed" Colin Kaepernick I think, don't you? I wonder how thats working out for him.

I like the national anthem, I like standing for it, I like a large group show their unity and patriotism.People have sacrificed much for our freedoms, I enjoy the opportunity to show how much it means to me.I guess in your eyes, I'm just silly.

Red white & blue wrote:

Basically the message is, "I can't honor a country that allows this to occur"

They're taking an action on a large stage to bring attention to a serious matter.

Let's go back to 1942 and say that Sid Luckman tells the Chicago Tribune, "I won't stand during the National Anthem because it's a disgrace what is happening to US citizens who are being forcibly removed from their homes and put into internment camps strictly on the basis of their race."

Would you feel differently about that protest compared to Kaepernick's?

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

Basically the message is, "I can't honor a country that allows this to occur"

They're taking an action on a large stage to bring attention to a serious matter.

Let's go back to 1942 and say that Sid Luckman tells the Chicago Tribune, "I won't stand during the National Anthem because it's a disgrace what is happening to US citizens who are being forcibly removed from their homes and put into internment camps strictly on the basis of their race."

Would you feel differently about that protest compared to Kaepernick's?

Sid Luckman? We got a true Bears fan here!

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

Basically the message is, "I can't honor a country that allows this to occur"

They're taking an action on a large stage to bring attention to a serious matter.

Let's go back to 1942 and say that Sid Luckman tells the Chicago Tribune, "I won't stand during the National Anthem because it's a disgrace what is happening to US citizens who are being forcibly removed from their homes and put into internment camps strictly on the basis of their race."

Would you feel differently about that protest compared to Kaepernick's?

Interesting. It seems we both agree (maybe implied on your part) that it is a refusal to respect or honor the country during the national anthem. I believe your argument is that sometimes that is an appropriate act and a way to call attention to an injustice.

In your example, the government's official policy was to the internment based on race, in the current issue the government's official policy is not the unfair treatment of minorities. They are very different situations.

Even if they were the same, there are two of my issues that posters are missing. People in the stands can sit down through the national anthem for whatever reason they want (they might sit down because the government allows gays to marry). That is their right, but it is also our right to disapprove and even boo such an act. We all have freedom of speech.

The second issue, the players are not doing this on there private time, many of those who purchase tickets don't want to see someone politicize the event. I don't pay to see you petition of political cause.

It's a protest. I think there's a spectrum of feelings from those participating, but I don't think this kneeling is meant to be offensive like Larry Flynt wearing the flag as a diaper was. You wouldn't say that this WWII vet is essentially giving the finger to the USA, would you?

They are, but in the case of internment, would you say that refusing to stand for the National Anthem while American citizens are forced into camps would be a morally justified act of protest?

I agree.

I think that this kneeling is a quiet way to bring attention to this problem. Kaepernick started this and it's cost him a job as a backup in the NFL. But he's succeeding in bringing attention to a serious problem.

The reality is Kaperneck (however it is spelled unimportant like himself) will really hate the USA when he can't find a job. Think about how many people are starting to turn against the NFL. These athletes are incorrect on how they are choosing to protest. They make the type of money they make because A.) This Country, and B.) because they have talent and are marketable. The problem is the moment they take a knee and show who they really are marketable corporations that they are making money off of can no longer use them. They might as well be locked up just like Aaron Ramirez because they have basically taken a shot at this country and those that are in grave yards for them. There are more acceptable ways to protest children look up to these guys and the actions they do. As of now there is nothing to look up to with what they are doing. As a veteran who has sacrificed for my country and has even missed anniversaries, my children's birthdays, and had to sit down and write out a will before going over seas. These guys have so many luxuries' and it angers me by how selfish they are behaving.

What would your thoughts be if they were kneeling during the anthem because they won't stand for the anthem of a country that takes such woeful care of our veterans?

That was a good post. I think there are a "spectrum of feelings from those participating". Some are quite angry with this country and do mean to be "offensive" to this country for allowing racial injustice to continue from the police and some just want to draw attention to continued problem of racial inequities. But that is part of my problem with this, what are the participants actually demonstrating against, the government? the country? the police?..... or is it a plea for unity? Kaepernick I have no respect for. He wore socks to practice with the saying, "Police are pigs". That is an amazingly negative and destructive stereotype of our police and that should not have been allowed. Its hate speech and it tells you where his head was at during his demonstrations.One of the great questions that you asked in your post that is applicable not just to protesting the Japanese internment but to this whole issue, "Is it morally justified?" That of course is a very subjective question. Maybe the protests are morally justified to that individual. But let me turn that around, can I be morally justified to express my displeasure at players who refuse to respect our country during the anthem. Knowing so many gave up their lives for our country, do I have the right and the moral justification to protest against the protesters, or does it only work one way?If you say yes to both points, then I guess we come to an agreement.

Red white & blue wrote:

I like the national anthem, I like standing for it, I like a large group show their unity and patriotism.

People have sacrificed much for our freedoms, I enjoy the opportunity to show how much it means to me.

I guess in your eyes, I'm just silly.

Nope, I don't think that view is silly. As you specifically described it, not silly at all.

What's silly is the notion that the National Anthem HAS to be played before every sporting even from Little League to the pros. There is absolutely no logic to this ongoing display of patriotism at venues that are NOT in any form or fashion intended or appropriate for displays of patriotism. (And I have already noted the exceptions...)

You want to stand with a large group and salute the flag as the National Anthem plays? That's cool; do it at a Veteran's Day or July 4th parade. My opinion isn't meant to offend anyone; I'm just stating the fact that playing the Anthem at a non-World, non-Olympic, etc. sporting event is illogical, nonsensical and inappropriate.

And while we're at it, PLEASE stop playing "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch at baseball games! That was fine for the first round of baseball games following 9/11, but it was time to drop it after that.

I think it's more specifically to bring attention to the use of excessive force against black people but that was before Trump stuck his nose in it.

It's not the right way for him to take out his frustrations. That and not voting cost him moral high ground.

Yes, you can. I can understand someone who says, "I understand the deep frustration people feel about this, however, this isn't the way I would want them to bring attention to this."

Oddly, I agree with it all.

I want to go back to one point you made that I feel really elucidates why there are so many strong and conflicting reactions to these demonstrations. You said there was a wide spectrum of feelings of those who participate in these demonstrations.

I think that is very true and it because somewhat of a Rorschach test of those seeing those who protest and those who are angry with the protesters.

To many the protesters are just trying to draw attention to a racial inequity so how could anyone have a problem with that? Are the people against the protesters racists.

But then you have those like Colin Kaepernick who was very clear about his refusal to honor the country and why. He said, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color... would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

Colin is refusing to honor the country and basically labeling the country as racist.

So who is to know the meaning behind kneeling during the national anthem?

Nobody knew people could be so complicated.

Uh... I refer you to the previous paragraph.

Well, it was bad optics, but "he's just new to this."

You're free to be morally inept all you want and ask silly questions all you want.

What an asinine conversation.

Stick to running.

Your post lost ALL credibility as soon as you dismissed Kaepernick's hate message on his socks, "Police are Pigs" as simply bad optics.There is a saying, "None are so blind as though who will not see". I would change that for you, "None are so blind as those who don't even know they are blind".I don't really know if its worth breaking this down for you, but a major cause of the conflict about this issue and why good people can be on both sides of this issue has to do their understanding of what is being communicated by the demonstration.This was discussed in previous posts, but apparently you are too smart and you already know everything about this issue. (At this point reread the quote I altered to make it more suitable to you.) You post added nothing to discussion of the issue.

L L wrote:

Yes, it took guts for him to that while his piers weren't.

Peer pressure, as you say.

So imagine the guts it took for Kaepernick to do what he did, going against his piers.

And taking on national backlash and losing income from it.

All just for a cause.

Guts

It would be easier for each of them to just follow the crowd. But one risked a lot more.

Ran a boat into a pier last summer. True story.

kaepernick hates usa wrote:

Big Red wrote:

You show respect for your country by standing up for it's values, and for justice for all, as Colin Kaepernick has done.

Colin Kaepernick does not respect our country. He told us so, there's no debate about it. He also believes cops are pigs. If you love America and respect the work our police do then you oppose his "movement."

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

Big Red wrote:

You show respect for your country by standing up for it's values, and for justice for all, as Colin Kaepernick has done.

You mean the "unemployed" Colin Kaepernick I think, don't you? I wonder how thats working out for him.

That isn't the insult you want it to be dotard.

He's using $100 bills to wipe his tears.