Should High School Cross Country Coaches Run with the Team?

depends on the relationship wrote:

dingle wrote:

I loved it when my coach ran with me. So did other kids on my team. Why do you think you know otherwise?

I said the same thing back on the first page. Apparently Flagpole lis just going to ignore us and continue to claim that people with our opinion do not exist.

The two of you are in a very small minority. Maybe your towns were right under some big power lines or something.

Surprise! wrote:

depends on the relationship wrote:

I said the same thing back on the first page. Apparently Flagpole lis just going to ignore us and continue to claim that people with our opinion do not exist.

Of course your opinion is valid and matters. I just think you are a huge minority. Most kids don't want the coach running with them.

Yep. Vast majority of high school kids don't want a coach running with them...and, even if a handful of kids do like it, it still isn't right. Needs to be a separation.

Flagpole wrote:

john utah wrote:

I totally disagree with you. There is nothing wrong with it. Furthermore, high school coaches aren't getting paid s#it so I would see this as a bit of a perk, getting to run occasionally before 5:30 pm when others are in the office.

Guess we will have to disagree the, brother. Being a coach isn't about getting perks...it's about doing what's right for the athletes and the program, and an adult running with the kids isn't right...on any level. Only rationalization makes it so.

Ugh Flagpole is literally the worst buzzkill

Stravybeans wrote:

Ugh Flagpole is literally the worst buzzkill

Nope. That would be any coach who runs with his/her team.

When Flagpole and I 100% agree on a topic with zero variation, you know it has to be true!

Surprise! wrote:

When Flagpole and I 100% agree on a topic with zero variation, you know it has to be true!

True dat!

It's obvious that this a subject that you are very passionate about, Flagpole.I just don't like it how you act like everything you say is 100% true on the matter. To prove something is not true, all you need to do is provide one counterexample. Even after coaches say they had athletes tell them that they loved it when the coach ran with them, you say that they all 100% hated it, no matter what they claimed. You can't say that with 100% certainty.

Thinking back to my days as a high school runner, I enjoyed when our coach ran with us every now and then. He had a good balance of knowing when he could run along with a group and when he needed to step aside and supervise. When he ran with us, it never once crossed my mind as creepy. I never felt like my "bonding time" with teammates was restricted. There was plenty of time for that before and after practice. The top priority for practice time was training, so that's what I did. If some bonding time came along with it - that's great - but I never felt slighted if I felt like I couldn't say a bad word or talk about girls if my coach was around. There was still the coach/athlete separation, and it's pretty safe to say that we all respected the hell out of our coach. He was a bada$$ marine and cancer survivor.

That being said, I am a current coach (not HS level), and I know a coach should not be training with their athletes at all times. Keep in mind, I view training and running as two separate entities. I just don't think this topic is 100% one way or the other.

Just curious, Flagpole, does your opinion differ whatsoever for college teams?

coachathlete wrote:

It's obvious that this a subject that you are very passionate about, Flagpole.I just don't like it how you act like everything you say is 100% true on the matter. To prove something is not true, all you need to do is provide one counterexample. Even after coaches say they had athletes tell them that they loved it when the coach ran with them, you say that they all 100% hated it, no matter what they claimed. You can't say that with 100% certainty.

Not what he said. We both acknowledged that there's a minority of kids who like it. We suggested it was still the wrong thing to do, not that they didn't like it.

Flagpole wrote:

You are rationalizing running with the team. You can find out about an injury before or after the run, and you can find out why a runner didn't run with the proper group once the run is over. Regardless of what you think, you are hovering and you are cutting in on team bonding.

Once the run is over the damage has been done, esp in the case of an injured runner who presses and makes a bad decision (or perhaps you think HS runners never make bad decisions)

And you are rationalizing why your experience must be correct - I have no idea about what trauma you had with coaches cutting in on your bonding experience that makes you so adamant that any time spent with coaches while on a run is a horrible thing but I have seen the opposite as both coach and athlete. That's why there are at least as many on here saying the opposite as agreeing with you. Its a tool like anything else, used wisely it can be very effective and there are lots of examples (just about every successful team in our state uses this tool one way or another). You can certainly do well without using it but then again you can find a coach that has been successful using just about every method of training. Enough arguing though, I have much better things to do. So congrat's you get the last word so you must be right!

coachathlete wrote:

If you change this:

...I am a current coach (not HS level), and I know a coach should not be training with their athletes at all times."

To:

"...I am a current coach (not HS level), and I know a coach should not be training with their athletes ever."

...then you will be right.

I haven't put much thought into how I view this with college teams, but I likely wouldn't have as strong an opinion. The athletes there are all adults and not in a school system (mostly...there are some religious colleges that are very authoritarian) where they keep their thumb on you all the time which CAN stifle personal growth. Also, adults training with adults is different than adults training with high school students (even if some of those high school students are legally adults). But again, I don't have a strong opinion on this just yet.

My answer is a qualified yes.

Sometimes I and my assistants have run with our kids to help teach them pace--pacing for a maintenance run, for a warmup, for tempo running, and so on. When there's real teaching and coaching going on, it's totally appropriate to run with the team, particularly with different groups and abilities.

When our kids go on the road we always have at least one coach out there in a vehicle watching out for them, and often we have two vehicles. Their safety is our priority for a variety of reasons.

As long as you're teaching/coaching rather than just getting in a workout, then i see no problem with it, especially if you're one of several coaches.

BTW: our team is a perennial state power and we've been to NXN, and we have a rather large JV also. We have runners of all abilities.

Flagpole wrote:

The two of you are in a very small minority.

What is the basis for this assertion? We both obviously have our opinions and our own anecdotal experiences, and that's all we can really discuss. Presenting your own assumption as fact does not make it so.

Flagpole wrote:

Fast is as fast does wrote:

What I have heard most at end-of-the year banquets from seniors is how much that appreciated that I ran with them.

That is something a kid says to a coach to be nice and to seem mature in hopes of impressing you. They hated it that you ran with them...seriously hated it.

From earlier in the thread.

1) Part of discussion with the team is how to recognize the difference between an injury and ordinary soreness. They should be instructed not to run if they have an injury and to seek the trainer.

2) No coaches cut in on my bonding time with the team. This was how it is supposed to be. Horrible that some coaches run with their teams.

3) I have not said anything about the success of coaches who run with teams, so your point there holds no water. I am certain there are coaches who run with their teams who have great teams. It's not because they ran with them though, and there are many reasons that a coach should not run with their team...as I have pointed out.

4) I am right not because I have the last word with you but because I am simply right on this matter...and by the way, many have agreed with me. They are also right.

depends on the relationship wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

The two of you are in a very small minority.

What is the basis for this assertion? We both obviously have our opinions and our own anecdotal experiences, and that's all we can really discuss. Presenting your own assumption as fact does not make it so.

I know a LOT of runners, and I have NEVER heard anyone say that they enjoyed running with a high school coach. Whenever this topic has come up, everyone and their brother who had that experience has said they hated it. I know I would have, and I know my son and his teammates would hate it.

Again though...that you didn't mind is immaterial. A coach shouldn't do it EVEN IF all of his runners love it (trust me, they don't). Too much familiarity.

Surprise! wrote:

Remember, this is about high school. This isn't about a pro coach running with his athletes, and this isn't about running with 10 year olds who need someone to teach them safe traffic navigation.

High school kids don't want you there. It's team bonding time, not hovering coach time.

First off, I am not sure how this thread made it this far, this is not a complicated issue. I know for a fact that it is not black or white because I have been on both sides. I don't have to guess about this, I remember what it was like as a H.S. athlete when a coach run with us. There were times we really liked it and looked forward to it. Most of the time it was just ok and perhaps there may have been an occasions or two where we wished he hadn't run with us. There were a few benefits, he always knew the course, stuck to the training plan, he paced us, encouraged us to stick to the pace and we couldn't goof off. Btw, I am not talking about a coach who runs all of the workouts, just periodically and usually early in the season. People talk about kids bonding with each other, this allows the coach to bond with the kids as well. When I was coaching, I know for a fact that there we times when the kids looked forward to me running with them. With all of that said, some of the best coaches I've had didn't run with the team, in fact, perhaps my best coach was fat and would not have been able to keep up on a bike.

What I will add is that I rarely ran with female grade school athletes, I realized after a couple of times that they preferred not to have me there. I think that had to do with the fact that I tended to push the pace harder than they wanted to run and they weren't able to engage in girl talk with me around.

1) Whether your team is a perennial state power or not makes no difference. You should not be running with your team. Give them a distance and a target time for that distance...you do not need to be running with them and should not be.

2) Keep your kids off the road. Bottom line there.

It's made it this far because Flagpole states that it is 100% never ok for HS coaches to run with athletes, and people keep providing counter examples, and then the cycle starts over.

Flagpole wrote:

depends on the relationship wrote:

What is the basis for this assertion? We both obviously have our opinions and our own anecdotal experiences, and that's all we can really discuss. Presenting your own assumption as fact does not make it so.

I know a LOT of runners, and I have NEVER heard anyone say that they enjoyed running with a high school coach. Whenever this topic has come up, everyone and their brother who had that experience has said they hated it. I know I would have, and I know my son and his teammates would hate it.

Again though...that you didn't mind is immaterial. A coach shouldn't do it EVEN IF all of his runners love it (trust me, they don't). Too much familiarity.

So like I said, you are putting forth anecdote as fact. "X opinion is in the minority" is a statement that cannot be made honestly without actual evidence. People you have spoken to have stated a preference for not having a coach run with them. That's really all you can claim. You have no basis for the broader claim that you have made.