"What the Health" Netflix film - thoughts?

dietss wrote:

In addition to completely lacking B12, vegans can get very little calcium too.

Vitamin A status can also be deficient.

Leafy greens are actually a pretty good source of calcium. It could be that people that eat too much protein can sap themselves of calcium. The big ones to look into are vitamin B12 and then maybe Omega-3 fatty acids/DHA when vegan.Of course many runners get low on iron and other vitamins/nutrients (I've run with many guys that eat red meat 3 times a week who will get low on iron...more so than I do eating vegetarian). Bottom line: For most Americans eating more fruits and veggies is usually a good thing. Cutting out highly processed/packed food is usually a good thing. That is a few steps closer to Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet. One can definitely thrive on a plant-based diet (not always the same as "vegan" keep in mind). I could eat vegan donuts and vegan ice cream all day and be super unhealthy. With a "plant-based diet" the focus is getting in veggies, fruits and whole grains (think rice, oats etc), legumes. Higher nutrient density per calorie instead of higher caloric density per gram of food (although let's face it dopamine release is correlated with higher caloric density foods.....higher fat, higher refined sugar etc. that's evolutionary biology).

dietss wrote:

In addition to completely lacking B12, vegans can get very little calcium too.

S. Canaday wrote:

The big ones to look into are vitamin B12 and then maybe Omega-3 fatty acids/DHA when vegan.

Also iodine too.

Some children in strict vegan families develop mental retardation from iodine deficiency.

Vitamin A deficiency is a big thing in third world countries.

Yeah well in third world countries there are lots of problems with all sorts of things (not enough caloric intake/starvation, poor drinking water and access to medical care etc). You're kind of going off on a tangent there, IMO.Not hard to get iodine in the US...I'd say it's actually kind of hard to avoid. I get the cheap table salt at the store. Plenty of iodine right there IMO. Vitamin A? Just eat a carrot or sweet potato. In the US (and a lot of other first world countries) top killers are heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer. It is mind blowing that people don't see the connection with what they eat, obesity rates, and these types of physical aliments.

dietss wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

The big ones to look into are vitamin B12 and then maybe Omega-3 fatty acids/DHA when vegan.

Also iodine too.

Some children in strict vegan families develop mental retardation from iodine deficiency.

Vitamin A deficiency is a big thing in third world countries.

S. Canaday wrote:

Not hard to get iodine in the US...I'd say it's actually kind of hard to avoid. I get the cheap table salt at the store. Plenty of iodine right there IMO.

I avoid added natrium. I use iodine pills and an expensive potassium mineral salt that has iodine.

Vitamin A? Just eat a carrot or sweet potato.

Has beta-carotene but not actual vitamin A. Don't know if that matters though. I take a small dose of retinol just in case. :)

In the US (and a lot of other first world countries) top killers are heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer. It is mind blowing that people don't see the connection with what they eat, obesity rates, and these types of physical aliments.

I think it is more reasonable to push low cholesterol levels than veganism. They are largely the same thing though.

If you can drink milk you should go to the ends of the Earth to find a good source.

-LOL at finding anything remotely close in carb density combined with protein

-LOL at listening to jealous lactose intolerant producers who want to take you down to their level

dietss wrote:

I avoid added natrium. I use iodine pills and an expensive potassium mineral salt that has iodine.

I meant to say sodium not natrium. :)

My wife and I eat vegetarian during the week then whatever on the weekend. It is VERY easy to easy vegetarian AND still be eat unhealthy foods. I often have to remind my wife that 'Yes, these Doritos are vegetarian.'

I do this simply to increase the amount of vegetables I eat. We are still learning and finding recipes that we like that do not involve processed foods.

Nice, these are some really knowledgeable posts. Thanks so much, everyone. I'm pretty interested in the science of nutrition, so this is great stuff.

So, in your diet, you have to go out of your way to get the nutrients you require, and if you were an omnivore, you would have to make less concessions about what you eat.What exactly are you adding to this discussion? The idea that, if Americans ate fruits and vegetables, they'd be healthier? Have you contacted any major news Networks with this groundbreaking research?

Naw, I as a mostly vegan/plant-based athlete I wouldn't say one goes "out of their way" to eat anything extra. It's more like you avoid a lot of things. In a place like Boulder that is very easy. Mexican food, beans/rice with veggies and salsa, asian stir fry with tofu...all quite easy to prepare vegan. I think ALL distance runners should watch their iron levels, vitamin B12 levels, vitamin D levels and magnesium levels regardless of diet type. Nutrient absorption is the key as well as variety. As an omnivore it is true you may not have to take a B12 pill once a week (not really a big deal to me)...but because you are eating animal products you can also likely be getting a lot of unhealthy, residual side ingredients and compounds promoting a lot of IGF-1 influenced growth (as one example)...usually not a good thing for a full grown adult. Not to mention the environmental impact/destruction. Cow farts are no joke. Believe it or not some reason people still don't use the common sense "eat more fruits and veggies". The other "recent, ground breaking diet news" is that real, whole foods in more natural states are better than highly processed packaged foods with a lot of additives and preservatives. Who would've thought?!What really grinds my gears is the attack on carbs (obviously not all are created equal). People think carbs and refined sugar are all to blame for most of their obesity/cholesterol issues so they eat bacon instead and actually think it's healthier...Type II Diabetes is likely cropping up from eating high fat diets (not just the extra refined sugar)....the "Standard American diet" recently is topping 30-35% of calories from fat. Many plant based doctors consider that "very high fat" and the average health of an adult in this country (poor) sure seems to reflect that.

For a healthy person in good shape refined sugar is pretty harmless. It can destroy your teeth though if you do not take care of them.

Saturated fat(and cholesterol too) on the other hand will raise blood cholesterol levels of such a person.

Being in good shape makes you practically immune to type 2 diabetes but not cardiovascular disease.

High fat diet can be healthy if it is good fat. Usually it is not.

Yes, sorry. I forgot that the Boulder, CO. Restaurant and grocery scene is very representative of the rest of the United States. Guess I incorrectly assumed that it would be difficult to maintain a vegan diet in the regular world, which i also incorrectly assumed was full of very food-insecure neighborhoods.

Oddly enough, I was also under the assumption that the recent rise in type 2 diabetes was a result of excess sugars and that having a low carb, high fat diet would train the body to burn fat as a fuel source... Weird how we would read a lot of the same research and come up with different conclusions...

I think it's pretty obvious that type II diabetes can be caused by either high fat or high carb diets. The two extremes do not work well. If all you're eating is candy and pasta and you're not exercising, you'll probably become diabetic eventually. By the same coin, eating a diet excessive in meat can lead you to becoming diabetic as well, not to mention increased cancer risk. Of course, with both scenarios, the patient would probably be obese or at least overweight, which is a huge risk factor for disease in and of itself.

No doubt the body can use fat as a fuel source..Don't get caught up in the "low carb hype" though. If you want to talk about "fad diets" that is ripe for the picking. Have a steak with butter on it regularily and watch your insulin spike and watch the obesity rate continue to climb. People go "Atkins" or "Paleo" and they initially lose some water weight and cut out some refined sugar. Duh you cut out refined sugar and highly processed food (and in the case of Paleo, dairy). What happens to cholesterol long term though? Does the weight/body fat creep back up? Likely it does. How about IGF-1? People start to gain weight again after putting butter and eggs in their coffee to make it "bulletproof" for breakfast. Watch what happens in the next 10-15 years of doing stuff like that. In the "real word" (read global scale) there are actually quite a few plant-based diets and cultures...there are even "blue zones" that thrive...less obesity, less cancer, less diabetes. If there weren't vegetarians in the world there wouldn't be enough energy/food to go around right now!Bottom line is this: Only a "whole foods, plant based diet" has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease, stroke, type II diabetes and cancer. No other diet can say that...

People make things way too complicated. Life expectancy and quality is primarily determined by genetics, physical activity, and avoidance of directly toxic substances like cigarettes, coal dust, large amounts of alcohol, etc, etc.

Organic, locally grown, vegetarian, vegan, GMO-free diets are all meaningless in terms of improving actual health and happiness.

14 men have set the mile world record since Roger Bannister first broke 4 in 1954. It took over 65 years for a single one of those guys to die and when Derek Ibbotson regretfully passed away this winter he was a ripe old 84. As far as I know, none of these guys had a diet any more exotic than common sense rules of the times dictated. They all had good genetics, participated in athletics from a young age and most continued that active lifestyle after their running career ended.

If you want to live a healthy life

Don't eat fried foods

Don't drink soda

Don't smoke

Don't drink alcohol regularly or to excess

Don't eat red meat more than a few times a week

Don't work around coal dust, asbestos, lead, etc.

Don't stare at a computer screen all day

Do exercise 4-5 times a week

Do get calcium, Vitamin D, protein, some salt, and good fats into your body on a regular basis.

Do get outside regularly

Can vegans live a healthy, happy life? I'm sure they can but it is definitely cheaper and easier for a reasonable omnivore to maintain the same level of health and fitness with no statistical downside.

S. Canaday wrote:

Bottom line is this: Only a "whole foods, plant based diet" has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease, stroke, type II diabetes and cancer. No other diet can say that...

Great to see you're part of conversation Sage!

I've been plant based for 2 years and feel amazing. Not to mention, I'm faster than ever.

Bulletproof works. Butter and eggs in your coffee are not going to make you obese, you just got to slam that modafinil down every morning so you don't feel the need to eat for the rest of the day.

Veganism is a form of orthorexia, potentially as damaging as anorexia nervosa. No society in history has sustained itself on a diet free of animal products.