Road Racing & Training Thread - Week Ending June 25, 2017

Good question. Right now, my goal might just be to make it to the starting line. Actually, if I get a bad report from the doc tomorrow, or if I am not feeling up to it, I will not run it, as my long-term goal is more important (Richmond Marathon).

If I do run it, I would want to run a solid race for that particular course. The fastest I have ever run it was last year's 18:40, my old 5k PR. Having run 17:58 (flat course), and 18:17 (hilly course) recently, I would want to be somewhere in that realm. Felt like a sack of potatoes today in my eight-miler. Last two runs have been crummy.

All the best to you...

OR, don't worry about the last couple of days. Some days are just like that. The fairly minimal reduction in your overall volume will not impact your race day fitness at all.

Regardless of what the doc says, I am going to run a 4 miler in the western suburbs of Chicago on the 4th. I ran 20:28 there a couple of years ago, but that was about a perfect weather day and it was a really good race for me. My workouts have been fewer but faster the last month or so as compared to 2015, so I don't know what to expect. I think I will shoot for 20:40s.

Smoove wrote:

OR, don't worry about the last couple of days. Some days are just like that. The fairly minimal reduction in your overall volume will not impact your race day fitness at all.

Regardless of what the doc says, I am going to run a 4 miler in the western suburbs of Chicago on the 4th. I ran 20:28 there a couple of years ago, but that was about a perfect weather day and it was a really good race for me. My workouts have been fewer but faster the last month or so as compared to 2015, so I don't know what to expect. I think I will shoot for 20:40s.

Thanks for the feedback, Smoove. Your plan sounds good. Go for it...and I hope you get it!

As for me, I think this knee thing is getting in my head. I agree with you that I should not worry about things--thanks for telling me this. I have been thinking that i should run no matter what, as you are. I like this race. It is a nice event, and it is run by a friend and fellow runner (he is the RD).

Should I keep things easy this week (more rest and less running)? Or should I just get back to my usual 6-day schedule (Mon.-Sat. with rest on Sunday)? Please advise.

All the best...

Question for the more knowledgeable ones around here. I need to start really incorporating some midweek climbing efforts into my training but I'm having a hard time replacing a tempo/interval session with them. I'm thinking I could maybe kill two birds (sorry birdwatcher) with one stone by doing some long climbing at tempo effort, maybe broken into a few 8-10 minute reps, to cover the weekly tempo run as well. Hardest part will be keeping rest from becoming too long in between efforts as I don't have a hill that long but I could perhaps move them to the treadmill. Am I on the right track or completely out of my mind with this?

Smoove,

Actually, I have been interested in having your assistance, but have been too afraid to ask (kind of hinted at it in my last e-mail to you). If you could plan out my next eight days of training, I will follow it exactly, and be very appreciate. If you are too busy, or for whatever other reason you cannot do this, I would understand. It would be Mon.-Sat. with Sunday off. The rest would be up to you.

I know my body well, but you know so much more about running and training than I do, and I like your methodical ways.

All the best...

Working Harder wrote:

Question for the more knowledgeable ones around here. I need to start really incorporating some midweek climbing efforts into my training but I'm having a hard time replacing a tempo/interval session with them. I'm thinking I could maybe kill two birds (sorry birdwatcher) with one stone by doing some long climbing at tempo effort, maybe broken into a few 8-10 minute reps, to cover the weekly tempo run as well. Hardest part will be keeping rest from becoming too long in between efforts as I don't have a hill that long but I could perhaps move them to the treadmill. Am I on the right track or completely out of my mind with this?

I've done hill reps in the past (Bridge reps) actually. If you have a bridge near by that can work to replace the hill. I usually run hard up and jog down for 4-6 miles. I notice after doing that 4-6 weeks I'm way speedier. The bridge is a good bit away so I don't always do it. I'm currently wishing I would have added it into my schedule more often. I've never ran on a treadmill, but I would think you could crank out a pretty good treadmill hill sesh.

I have a couple options that are road surface; first is almost a mile with an average grade of 14%, other is 2 miles with an average grade of around 6%. The problem with each of these would be the recovery time to get back down being too long, I would think. So for treadmill I'm thinking more like a mile at 8-10% tempo-ish effort, minute or two easy, repeat 2-3 more times.

Working Harder- maybe check out some Canova- he has some tempo work on gradual inclines.

Given your options, What about a "split tempo" long run (or medium long run) that incorporates something like 2x(2x2miles)... (Yes I know kind of just semantics not calling it 4x2)...1st two mile interval in each set on flat course, then 2nd interval of each set up the 2 mile hill. short break between the intervals within the set and then some steady running between sets maybe 5-10 miles between the two sets. The other hill with 14% grade sounds more like shorter interval material to me

I might as well hop in here.

Going into my freshman year of college. PRs: 2:07 (800) 4:42 (1600) 9:56(3200) 17:04 (5k). Never ran very high mileage (25-30mpw tops) in HS but my college coach thinks I have some potential.

M- 5.2 miles easy (7:42)

T- 2 easy. 2x1 mile tempo 1 minute recovery (5:45, 5:48). 1 easy cool down

W- 6.14 miles (7:21)

T- 7.1 miles with 6x15 second hills after 40 minutes.

F- 4.23 miles recovery (7:22)

S- 9.39 miles progressive long run (6:40->5:45) (6:23 overall avg)

S- Off

+strength work 3x during the week

~38 miles total

My coach is slowly working my mileage up. Should be around 55mpw by the end of july before we start practice. Also he assigns the runs based on time so that's why the distances are weird

Tuesday's tempo intervals were ok, nothing special. I made the mistake of waiting till it got really hot out to do them. Thursday's hills were good. I've never been a very powerful runner so I think the hill training and strength work should really help. Saturday's long run was really good for me. I got up early and was able to get it in before it got hot. Just felt strong and smooth the whole way.

Hope everyone has a good week!

My next goal race is ..July 9th. I will be doing the inaugural 6pack 10k (rolling solo so if I finish I win!) Rules as follows:

5% beer.

One beer consumed every mile

The beer must be toted by the runner (empties may be discarded)

That's about it. It's a road race. The girlfriend is gonna go pro it on a bike .. so who knows what's gonna pop off...

What are the time predictions ?

I'll shoot you an email tomorrow. Recognize that your next 8 days won't change much. But your twining has been very consistent, so that's a good thing. The idea is just to feel fresh and crisp when you get this close to a race.

You bet. Thanks Smoove.

Welcome, Jsrunn99! Those PRs, especially the 1600 on up, are really solid for 25-30 mpw. Looks like your coach is on top of things; you definitely have some potential. I just graduated college, and during my time on the track team I've seen some freshmen come in and just make some huge jumps (perhaps the most impressive being one who went from 9:56 flat 3k to a 10:02 steeple/16:13 5k in one year)! Really looking forward to tracking your progress.

That progressive long run is really solid by the way.

Runrincerepeat wrote:

My next goal race is ..July 9th. I will be doing the inaugural 6pack 10k (rolling solo so if I finish I win!) Rules as follows:

5% beer.

One beer consumed every mile

The beer must be toted by the runner (empties may be discarded)

That's about it. It's a road race. The girlfriend is gonna go pro it on a bike .. so who knows what's gonna pop off...

What are the time predictions ?

Dude, I love beer but I would never make this. Total puke-fest for me. I am curious to see the video though. I'll do a few one arm curls in your honor.

I also have another general question, do you guys generally do time trials of any sort? I don't really know what kind of shape I'm in and there aren't any races around here for the next 2 months really (maybe 1 gimmicky 5k). I've been off or just running for so long that I don't know where I'm at. I thought about doing an occasional 5k TT but I don't know how that would work with the Pfitz plan I'm starting. I've also toyed with doing a 3k TT on a semi-regular basis as a fitness gauge but is that too short to be a real indicator. Sorry I'm rambling but any input or convo would be appreciated. Thanks.

I never time trial. I just don't find it useful in that I can never get the adrenaline rush in a time trial that I do in a race, so I would never come close to race performance, and thus the time trial wouldn't tell me what I would want to know.

Hey Smoove,

I followed your thread leading to Boston and it was a great read. My own spring marathon did not go well, as I tore my calf at the 8km mark and had to drop out. I am now 18 weeks out from my fall marathon. I will be 45 on race day and am hoping to run a sub 2:37:17 ( 6min/mile pace).

I have been doing about 30 to 40 miles a week for the last 6 weeks, without any speed. Just easy 7 to 7:20 pace over 6 miles to long runs of 15 miles ( once). Before the injury, I had averaged 60 miles per week for the 8 weeks prior to the marathon. I also did a 1:27:30 24km ( 5:45min/mile pace) race 3 weeks before the marathon, which felt really great.

There is the lead, here is the question: Do you think it is better to do another 6 weeks of easy to medium efforts, and get the mileage up in order to do a proper 12 week 70-84 mile Pfitz program, or would I be off doing an 18 week 55-70 mile per week program? Most of my injuries seem to be the small nagging type, but the lower legs have been a problem since turning 40.

Any advice you could give would be appreciated. I have run 2:43, but that 2:37 is really calling me and I know that time is running out. Thanks in advance.

Got back from the doc a short while ago. I have arthritis, and it is in its very early stages. No fracture (or re-fracture)--digital x-rays negative. Glad about that...but the arthritis is a bummer, though treatable. I guess I am truly an old man now.

Gotta go for a run now...

All the best...

Smoove wrote:

I never time trial. I just don't find it useful in that I can never get the adrenaline rush in a time trial that I do in a race, so I would never come close to race performance, and thus the time trial wouldn't tell me what I would want to know.

I totally understand your point. I have managed race times which I couldn't have fathomed without good competition. I've never time trialed in the past but I do know a few people that do. They kind of adjust the VDOT according to the time trial progression. Thanks for the input Mr. Smoove. Any other opinions?

I'm assuming you are carrying the whole 6-pack from the start. My estimate depends a lot on your kit but I'll toss an initial guess out anyway. How are you carrying the beer? What kind of beer? Without those details, assuming you are carrying the 6-pack in a backpack I am guessing 45:12. I'd be interested in a live stream if you get one going.

I'm not the most disciplined in sticking to a regimen but I like to turn my tempo runs into strava segment efforts. All the good segments are climbs and there are a large variety of 10-to-60 minute (and longer) efforts that require a hard effort. As far as doing 8-minute efforts with shorter breaks, tempo up, jog down, tempo up, jog down, etc. will get you a ways up a long hill and then you'll have a long downhill to finish. I don't know where you live in the valley and you know better than I do where the hills are but I'm surprised there's nothing near you long enough for a sustained tempo effort. What are your options?