Jenny Simpson is the Greatest US 1500m runner EVER- male or female

Les wrote:

Actually, I'm dropping Simpson to #5 after doing some research. #2 is Slaney with 6 #1 US rankings, the American record and World Championships gold. #3 is Rowbury with 6 #1 US rankings, the American record and World Championships bronze. #4 is Centro with 5 #1 US rankings, World Championships bronze and silver and Olympic gold (no American record). Simpson is #5 with 2 #1 US rankings, World Championships gold and silver and Olympic bronze (no American record).

I would never include a convicted drug cheat in a list of the Greatest US runners.

Aside from that, Simpson >> Rowbury.

When careers are finished we can have the conversation. Until then, Jenny is the greatest American Middle Distance Runner of All Time. Shannon is very close.

Lorper wrote:

Stopped reading your rankings after seeing you placed Rowbury above Simpson.

Track & Field News rankings as you can see, have 6 #1s for Rowbury as opposed to only 2 for Simpson. Also, no AR for Simpson. (It should be noted that T&FN'S rankings are based on an entire season's results, not just one race, even if it is a championship race.) Actually, one other runner should get consideration as Suzie Favor-Hamilton had 7 #1 rankings and could have had 9 except for drug cheat Regina Jacobs. Favor-Hamilton, however, had no World Championship/Olympics medals and no AR. Also, in the '90s and early '00s when Favor-Hamilton and Jacobs were dominating, US distance running was in a bad way. We had few truly world class runners and the few we did have of course, easily dominated the US competition.

GOAT We Will See wrote:

When careers are finished we can have the conversation. Until then, Jenny is the greatest American Middle Distance Runner of All Time. Shannon is very close.

You must be joking. Ryun is so far above every one else on this list it isn't funny. Ryun ranked #1 in the US while still in HIGH SCHOOL. He beat the World Record holder and Olympic champion while still in high school. He had 5 #1 US rankings and twice ranked #1 in the World. He set two world records over 1500m/mile. Total number of WRs by everyone else on the list: zero. Ryun was Genzebe Dibaba without PEDs.

Centro simply because he has the medals to show it

I give more weight to results than rankings. Their head to head record, medal counts, and PRs tell the tale of who has the better 1500 career - clearly Jenny.

Big fan of horseface wrote:

I love Jenny, but no WR or Olympic Gold, not at same level as Ryun, Slaney, or Centro.

I was pretty solidly on the Ryun when the thread about best American of all time came up last year.

I still am, but after Rio, I'm on shakier footing.

double world champion, multiple time US champ and olympic medalist doesn't take priority over one olympic silver medal and a great 2-3 year career? ( yes, I call her double world champion, Aregawi was busted for Meldonium )

Besides, Simpson is competing at a time where the competition is deeper and harder than it was for Ryun. The kenyan explosion hadn't even happened yet while Ryun was competing.

Les wrote:

GOAT We Will See wrote:

When careers are finished we can have the conversation. Until then, Jenny is the greatest American Middle Distance Runner of All Time. Shannon is very close.

You must be joking. Ryun is so far above every one else on this list it isn't funny. Ryun ranked #1 in the US while still in HIGH SCHOOL. He beat the World Record holder and Olympic champion while still in high school. He had 5 #1 US rankings and twice ranked #1 in the World. He set two world records over 1500m/mile. Total number of WRs by everyone else on the list: zero. Ryun was Genzebe Dibaba without PEDs.

Look, I get that Ryun was pretty great. But why do his fans refuse to consider the relative depth of competition he was facing? It is so, so much harder for an American today to set a world (or American) record than it was for Ryun. Ryun never broke 3:51 in a mile and the record today is 3:43. He never broke 3:33 and the record is now 3:26. Ryun would be an also-ran against the best of the last two decades, or maybe he'd be a Centro-type guy who can steal a top finish occasionally.

Lorper wrote:

I give more weight to results than rankings. Their head to head record, medal counts, and PRs tell the tale of who has the better 1500 career - clearly Jenny.

+1

No logical way to put Rowbury over Simpson. Head to head matches say it all.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Ultradude wrote:

Who has the women's American record for 1500? Oh yeah, Shannon Rowbury.

That's right. Simpson really has to take the AR back before we can make a serious case for her over someone who has owned the WR like Ryun or an Olympic gold medal like Centro.

She can't take back something she never had. Decker had the record before Rowbury

I disagree.

I could beat her easily in my day.

Filtering down to just the 1500m/mile races where they raced each other, it is 24-10 in favor of Simpson. I mean, come on.

idiotspotted wrote:

Ultradude wrote:

Who has the women's American record for 1500? Oh yeah, Shannon Rowbury.

Who loses to Simpson in every major race? Oh yeah, Shannon Rowbury.

Medals define an athlete a lot more than times/records do in my opinion.

Simpson is a racer. Ill bet she never gets the record. More medals yes.

Ill take the racer any day.

Jenny's win in 2011 started the big renaissance in American Middle distance running. She has bee a great ambassador of our country and our sport, a total class act.

She will need to continue to build speed to be a factor at the Worlds, running once in freezing conditions at Drake, in the heat of Sacramento, and a sluggish 800 at Occi. 2017 has been a thin season.

Great luck at the Worlds, don't lose a shoe. BTW, I remember that she wore thick gray socks at the 2011 Daegu Worlds, no socks in the shoeless, 2015 event.

Being a Diamond League champion is a huge feather in her cap.

Les wrote:

Actually, I'm dropping Simpson to #5 after doing some research. #2 is Slaney with 6 #1 US rankings, the American record and World Championships gold. #3 is Rowbury with 6 #1 US rankings, the American record and World Championships bronze. #4 is Centro with 5 #1 US rankings, World Championships bronze and silver and Olympic gold (no American record). Simpson is #5 with 2 #1 US rankings, World Championships gold and silver and Olympic bronze (no American record).

You are placing way too much emphasis on US rankings. Using your criteria Steve Scott should certainly be ahead of Rowbury with 10 #1 rankings, a WC silver and ARs.