World cross or nothing wrote:
The US high school kid who won world junior cross country. Forgot his name. Any high schooler who didn't run world junior cross country is excluded from this conversation, except those that competed before it existed.
Course record on a state championship course, state/national domestic champion against domestic completion in a 5km cross is a joke compared to racing world cross junior race. Ask any kid who's run it.
Perhaps you're thinking of Rich Kimball.
This guy, D "MF" R.
Idontreallyknow wrote:
Solomon Haile. 18 seconds faster than Centro on Hereford's Course. Also the only person to break 16 in the state meet with the old course (15:43)
Good one. I have never ranked a troll attempt before but this was very good.
World cross or nothing wrote:
The US high school kid who won world junior cross country. Forgot his name. Any high schooler who didn't run world junior cross country is excluded from this conversation, except those that competed before it existed.
Course record on a state championship course, state/national domestic champion against domestic completion in a 5km cross is a joke compared to racing world cross junior race. Ask any kid who's run it.
Hulst was a beast but lets not pretend that 70s world XC is remotely similiar to the modern one. Beating the best of europe is one thing. Beating the best of africa and europe is another.
Besides did Hulst even win a single CA XC title? I thought he came in 2nd.
Anyone here ever hear of Rudy Chapa?
Alan Scharsu was the best. He never lost a race.
LR did a great write-up a few years of this very question. It had some great arguments and explanations.
They came to what I believe is the proper conclusion: Ritz. Also, to the person who said that you HAD to win a World Jr XC title to be in the running, do you really think the guy(s) who won it in the '70s could beat an 18yo Bekele? You've got to be kidding.
Ritz decimated a 3:53 HS guy who would run a 3:59 indoors only a few months later.
asdfasfads wrote:
World cross or nothing wrote:The US high school kid who won world junior cross country. Forgot his name. Any high schooler who didn't run world junior cross country is excluded from this conversation, except those that competed before it existed.
Course record on a state championship course, state/national domestic champion against domestic completion in a 5km cross is a joke compared to racing world cross junior race. Ask any kid who's run it.
Hulst was a beast but lets not pretend that 70s world XC is remotely similiar to the modern one. Beating the best of europe is one thing. Beating the best of africa and europe is another.
Besides did Hulst even win a single CA XC title? I thought he came in 2nd.
This is clearly the answer. He destroyed the best American marathoner and miler in history to win Footlocker, then got the Bronze at Worlds behind guys who were probably 22.
Rudy Chapa - Hammond High School 1972-1975
I was at Hammond High in mid-70's when Chapa, Pinkowski, and Keough were 1,2, and 4 in the US in the 2 mile. I don't think Rudy ever lost a race in high school...
lmb wrote:
Gerry Lindgren, and it is not even close.
Was going to say this, for the US anyway. Maybe Ritz is next considering the field of guys he beat maybe have been the strongest ever and included Alan Webb and Ryan Hall.
Globally, was Zola Budd still in HS when she won world cross? As always Bekele enters these GOAT discussions.
Who's the greatest US women's HS XC runner?
Who's the greatest US women's HS XC runner?[/quote]
Easy, Amber Trotter or Sarah Baxter.
CA did not have a state cross country meet in 1975.
asdfasfads wrote:
World cross or nothing wrote:The US high school kid who won world junior cross country. Forgot his name. Any high schooler who didn't run world junior cross country is excluded from this conversation, except those that competed before it existed.
Course record on a state championship course, state/national domestic champion against domestic completion in a 5km cross is a joke compared to racing world cross junior race. Ask any kid who's run it.
Hulst was a beast but lets not pretend that 70s world XC is remotely similiar to the modern one. Beating the best of europe is one thing. Beating the best of africa and europe is another.
Besides did Hulst even win a single CA XC title? I thought he came in 2nd.
This is why message boards suck so bad. Other than a couple of posters in 2 pages the assumption is that we are only talking about boys. That said my vote would be for Annie Henderson, Ohio, late 70's Sarah Baxter, California.
Craig Virgin. His record has withstood 44 years of people trying to break it. The only worthy argument could be Ritz.
.STASI. wrote:
CA did not have a state cross country meet in 1975.[quote]asdfasfads wrote:
The CIF California High School Cross Country State Championships did not start until the Fall of 1987. Up until that time, the highest level championship for cross country that the CIF had was the NorCal and SoCal Championships.
Pappy wrote:
Craig Virgin. His record has withstood 44 years of people trying to break it. The only worthy argument could be Ritz.
This is all assuming that you're referring to his 3 mile record in Illinois, so if you're not, then just disregard whatever I say next.
This is hard to disagree with, but also pretty hard to agree with. Yeah there have been studs like Chris Derrick and Lukas Verzbicas who came pretty close to that record and they were phenomenal, so that's a good comparison. I would argue for Ritz just because his 5k HS record is a lot easier to compare with since the 5k is MUCH more popular then the 3 mile now and more stud athletes can be compared to it. Also the fact he DESTROYED Webb and Hall at Foot Locker. Anyway. For example you can say Verzbicas broke 4 in tough conditions and didn't beat Virgin's record, but you could also argue that Drew Hunter ran 3:57 and was 10 seconds off of Ritz's record on a lightning fast course.
TLDR: I would argue for Ritz since his 5k record is easier to compare to HS boys than a 3 mile and because he dismantled the guys who went on to become (arguably) America's best miler and marathoner.
I am a huge Craig Virgin Fan!!! Winning world cross twice is a major accomplishment. I would also rank him as one of the best ever, but don't be all consumed with his record lasting as long as it has. I am from Illinois and ran on the State meet course in the late 80's. The course has always had the same layout, but the flags have been moved to slightly change the distance of the course multiple times. I go back quite often to watch the meet, and no disrespect to Craig Virgin, but with the way the course is flagged and has been flagged over the last 20 years or so, Chris Derrick should be the course record holder. In my mind Verzbicas also should have a faster time than Virgin. Even Joe Newton has been quoted as saying that back when Craig Virgin won the course was run much shorter. Once again, no disrespect to Craig Virgin-he's not only one of the all time great high school runners, but also one of the best Americans ever!!
Blast it Steve! wrote:
The best high school cross country runner ever is Craig Virgin. He still holds the 3 mile CC state record in Illinois even though they have ran the same course for over 40 years since he then!
The course was lengthened slightly since Virgin ran on it. In reality, Derrick should have the record.