My 32 year old brother is about to invest 2 years and 24k into a CompSci degree - how do I stop him?

computer jobs are not hot anymore given indian, chinese, israeli, russian proggrammers can be bought for $5/hr online.

brotherhood wrote:

I feel he is setting himself up for failure on a completely random and new path.

Of course "turning his life around" would be a good thing but his life isn't bad! He isn't an alcoholic or coke addict or anything and has a solid group of friends.

I think a way better plan of action would be to do something like take night classes for a business degree and try to become the restaurant manager - he stays in the same field but does something a little different instead of essentially rolling the dice.

And no, I've seen all the posts on this forum about computer coding etc. and there is obviously a TON of ageism - he would be in tough as a 35 year old new grad.

You're really sounding like some weirdo controllerish freak. I think your brother's best move might be to cut you out of his life.

I did the same thing your brother did 27 years ago at the age of 29.

I spent 6k. Adjusted for inflation....well, it's not 24k, but even if it were. I would have made out well.

I've had a 27 year career. Have made over 100k a year for the past 19 years. Made around 250k last year (150k salary. 20k bonus. 30k in RSU. 50k in investments [I know you are thinking investments should not count, but I would not have so much in investments if I had not had this career]).

I'm turning 57 in a few weeks, and am deciding if I want to retire now and do something different, or work part time for a few more years, while finally starting to spend a little more money, rather than saving, investing, saving, investing all the time - not that I'm a complete cheapo, but I live as if I make 80-100k instead of several 100k.

My point is: it can be done, but only if you go for it. If your brother is smart. If he is motivated. If he is willing to work pretty hard. And, most importantly, if he ends up loving software development, then he can still do well. Despite the late start.

I hear you saying "Yes, you did it almost 30 years ago, but times are different today". Yes, they are. For both good and bad.

30 years ago, programmers made an okay living. We did it because we loved it, and made a middle class income. Times are different now. Incomes are at the upper end up the middle class, and can easily slide into upper class if you are really good.

30 years ago they were not nearly as many programming jobs. You could find one, but finding a great job could be a challenge.

I'd have just one bit of advice (as someone in the trenches). Before forking over money for a program, find some free or less expensive online training. Take some web dev, or python training classes. Check out some books on algorithms from the library. Give that 6 months or so. If he loves it, then go for it. If not, then maybe give up the dream.

I'll also add one thing: 2 year programs are fine, but unless it's 2 years leading to a 4 year degree at a reputable school, then it may not help you get a job all that much. You either have a 4 year degree, or you have experience. The experience could be open source work. Not necessarily paying jobs. Especially if the open-source work is on known projects. A 2 year certificate may not help all that much.

It's fine if you want to discourage him to spend his money wisely, but don't tell him it can't be done. It can.

Huh? Why? Because I'm telling him to stay away from a boring, extremely hard to break into, expensive education and career?I'm encouraging him to take business classes and leverage his talents to make good money in hospitality!!In hospitality he has 1 - experience 2 - connections 3 - great personality 4 - aptitude. In compsci he has..... nothing! AND he is up against a saturated market!

sad wrote:

You're really sounding like some weirdo controllerish freak. I think your brother's best move might be to cut you out of his life.

Let's clear some things up:

1) Brotherhood was too involved with his brother here. A 32-year-old doesn't need unsolicited advice on what to do with his life. Dude should go after any dream he wants. Bar tending will ALWAYS be there if he wants to go back to it. The brother is bored, and boredom is a good reason to seek another career. Having played in bands in bars for years, I can also tell you that those places can be really sad. Lights go on at the end of the night and you see the remaining lonely people.

2) It is false that programmers from other countries can be had at $5/hour. Competitive wages in the aforementioned foreign countries are beginning to be seen...still cheaper than here in the US, but their wages are rising significantly.

3) Overall, by 2024, there will be fewer programming jobs (predicted to decline 8%). This is due to many factors, but programming is not the hot career it once was.

Exactly! And especially for his personality. He is a big picture extrovert. Not a detail oriented, introverted tinkerer.

pop_pop_v2.2.1 wrote:

You seem to have lost the other half of the threads. It most certainly can be a boring job to the wrong personality. That's different than what you posted.

Not envious at all. I would love to brag about my brother. I'm sorry but contrary to what some of the media exaggerates they aren't hiring old, 2 year diploma compsci grads into 6 figure jobs - sorry to burst your bubble. I'm not scamming him - protecting him from wasting 24k. In fact I'm heavily encouraging him to take business classes and hospitality management training so he can leverage his experience and skillset into a great career!

sbeefyk1 wrote:

I agree with this guy. It's sad you are envious he may get a better degree than you and make a lot more money. Now you can go on with your life telling people your brother is a useless sack of garbage who smoked pot his whole life and accomplished nothing.

The truth is, at 34, he'd get hired as a manager and make 6 figures with a CS degree the day he graduates.

I hope you are saving for his retirement too because he will need you to pay for him when he finds out you scammed him out of a great opportunity.

"I'm telling him to stay away from a boring, extremely hard to break into, expensive education and career?"

Boring? No. Not at all. I'm never bored at work, though sometime I wish I could be (so I could spend work time trolling lets run:).

Hard to break into? Maybe in some areas. However, there is a serious shortage of candidates for most jobs.

Expensive? If you say so.

"In hospitality he has 1 - experience 2 - connections 3 - great personality 4 - aptitude. " Good points. There's nothing wrong with hospitality. If that's what HE wants. It sounds like that's what YOU want for him.

"In compsci he has..... nothing! AND he is up against a saturated market!"

He may have nothing now, but he can change that.

Saturated? Where do you get that from?

Exactly! What is happening now is just the tip of the iceberg. How is my brother - who is lukewarm and knows little about programming who may or may not struggle through a 2 year diploma - going to compete with a hungry 18 year old Indian kid who emigrated to the US 10 years ago and will have 10 years experience - a degree and be 5 years younger??

no go wrote:

computer jobs are not hot anymore given indian, chinese, israeli, russian proggrammers can be bought for $5/hr online.

Exactly!! That ship has sailed. Not only will there be less jobs but acceleration of technology will replace a lot of the jobs currently out there.

Maybe not boring for you - but look at your education - bet you have been enthralled with computers since you were 20 (or younger!). My bro never gave a crap about computing. Shortage of candidates for back end, 4 year compsci positions - maybe. shortage of candidates for web development positions?? A dime a dozen!!Look up stats on web developers - there are too many to count.

blatblatblat wrote:

"I'm telling him to stay away from a boring, extremely hard to break into, expensive education and career?"

Boring? No. Not at all. I'm never bored at work, though sometime I wish I could be (so I could spend work time trolling lets run:).

Hard to break into? Maybe in some areas. However, there is a serious shortage of candidates for most jobs.

Expensive? If you say so.

"In hospitality he has 1 - experience 2 - connections 3 - great personality 4 - aptitude. " Good points. There's nothing wrong with hospitality. If that's what HE wants. It sounds like that's what YOU want for him.

"In compsci he has..... nothing! AND he is up against a saturated market!"

He may have nothing now, but he can change that.

Saturated? Where do you get that from?

"He is a big picture extrovert. Not a detail oriented, introverted tinkerer. "

I think your pre-concieved ideas of what programmers are like is a few decades off. The days introverted programmer sitting in his office coding all day is a thing of the past. You don't need to be an extrovert, but you need to be able to communicate, and you need to be able to work with people to succeed today.

Perhaps at a higher management level - but how do you get to that level? Years of grinding it out over the minutiae code and stressing over the tiniest details - the polar opposite of my brother. I agree he is a great communicator - he definitely ticks that box! That's why I am trying very hard to persuade him to focus on a career (hospitality management, sales etc) where that is 90% of the job.He is not a detail oriented guy!

blatblatblat wrote:

"He is a big picture extrovert. Not a detail oriented, introverted tinkerer. "

I think your pre-concieved ideas of what programmers are like is a few decades off. The days introverted programmer sitting in his office coding all day is a thing of the past. You don't need to be an extrovert, but you need to be able to communicate, and you need to be able to work with people to succeed today.

"Maybe not boring for you - but look at your education - bet you have been enthralled with computers since you were 20 (or younger!)"

Read my other post. I'm 56. I started with computer at age 29. Taking a 6 month program. I have a 4 year business degree. I never got a computer science degree. When I was 20, computer used cassette tapes as a storage medium (TRS-80, buddy). I couldn't be bothered. I'd rather run. Or drink beer. Or both (4 mile beach beer race winner here).

"Shortage of candidates for back end, 4 year compsci positions - maybe. shortage of candidates for web development positions?? A dime a dozen!!"

I'll give you one thing. If you want to get into computer programming, you should be well rounded. You should be able to work on the back end, front end, or anywhere in between.

Yes, you will specialize, but you should have the ability to switch it up if you so desired. You don't need a computer science degree, but you should understand all the concepts.

Brother, you don't know what you are talking about here. You need a little be of detail orientation. Just like you need for business. Programmers are not a bunch of geeks who look like they are right out of "Real Genius", or "Silicon Valley".

It's a highly creative field. You need both people skills and intelligence, and not much more detail orientation than any other career. Certainly not more than you need to be in business.

Instead of being swamped for the next two years he could go extremely minimalist for two years or a little longer and save 100k. Invest that in a stock index. Assuming 7% growth he would have about an additional 200k at age 45. At age 65 his investment would be about 800k and he would be making his salary with his investment returns alone.

Thank you for real responses! It is nice to have a discussion on this without getting bashed as a brother hater. Regarding this post:This is just it! He will be a web developer after he finishes his program - what the heck can he do with that besides a low paying ' code factory' type job? He is more interested in the creative aspects of it so wouldn't do well in the back end (in my opinion)

Thank you!!!I really like that he is aspiring to be more and improve his life - he is just picking the completely wrong way to do it. If he took stock of all his skills he has gained being a bar manager - combined this with a business diploma - saved money and went into hospitality management he would be on a great path. Instead he wants to blow what little he has on a pie in the sky plan that will likely fail.

54re wrote:

Instead of being swamped for the next two years he could go extremely minimalist for two years or a little longer and save 100k. Invest that in a stock index. Assuming 7% growth he would have about an additional 200k at age 45. At age 65 his investment would be about 800k and he would be making his salary with his investment returns alone.

brotherhood wrote:

Huh? Why? Because I'm telling him to stay away from a boring, extremely hard to break into, expensive education and career?

I'm encouraging him to take business classes and leverage his talents to make good money in hospitality!!

In hospitality he has 1 - experience 2 - connections 3 - great personality 4 - aptitude.

In compsci he has..... nothing! AND he is up against a saturated market!

sad wrote:

You're really sounding like some weirdo controllerish freak. I think your brother's best move might be to cut you out of his life.

i'm sorry but you are moron.

there is no comparison between a CS degree and hospitality.

your brother absolutely should get the CS degree.

i have been involved in computers my entire life and hired many older developers who started late in life and became great developers.

a life in the hospitality industry is too much drinking, too much out late, all bad decisions.

if you really care about him, i would carefully read the posts on this thread and see that a CS path is a great decision.