doctor's in the house:is grey's anatomy true to form?

i am a first year medical student and i am somewhat interested in surgery. to any of the doctors in the house (and especially surgeons), is the tv show "grey's anatomy" pretty close to how a surgical internship works? i.e. 36 hour shifts. browbeating by staff. undercutting fellow residents? any help appreciated.

That stuff is very typical of interns. It is very hard to become a doctor. If you can't handle it maybe you should try something else.

36 hour shifts should be illegal.. the error rate isn't worth it.

is there really an error rate that has been proven in the operating room? i know the whole problem with work hours arose after some internal medicine residents in new york screwed up, but i don't know if there's ever been anything similar with surgery. to me, surgery is almost like a race. you can be tired and when you get in there all the endorphins crank up and you are bright eyed and bushy tailed.

either way, grey's anatomy is a pretty entertaining show, but it sure makes surgery look difficult. one of the surgical residents here at the hospital told me that she figured her salary last year- 38,000$- then figured it out by hour. it came out to only $5.72 an hour. that sucks when you already owe 80,000$ in school loans from med school! and it's that way for 5 years after med school! talk about slave labor.

Why do you think that most surgeons could collectively be classified as some of the most arrogant and unhappy lot of physicians that one would ever want to meet, not to mention unhealthy. For the most part, 36 hours in the hospital are de rigeur, although some sleep may be possible. The surgical residency has typically been brutal by design, although most have softened up in recent years. Where I trained most surgical residents were on call every other night and the program was MUCH longer then five years. My advice is to think LONG and hard about it before committing yourself.

thanks for the advice. are your hours that tough after residency. i mean, do you have time to see your family or anything? how about run at all?

Family? Run?

HAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

You're already in medical school and NOW you're worried about working 36 hours shifts? Didn't you know this coming in?

Listen - medical school, and surgery, is demanding. From my experience here, way too many medical students are worried about working long hours or the demanding residents.

Medicine isn't, and shouldn't be, for the faint of heart. There is only one way to learn medicine - and that is by constantly seeing patients. If you aren't in the hospital actually seeing a diesease, condition, surgery, they you aren't learning it. 36 hour shifts aren't that long when it comes down to it - you can catch some naps here and there. People in other professions work long hours too, nothing special about being a doctor and doing it.

Luckily for you, the standard internship work week is now in effect - and actually being monitored. Hopsitals that fail to adhere will lose their license.

The best advice I've been given is to make your specialty choice based on something you want to do with the rest of your life. If you want to do surgery, do it. If not, don't. If you're worried about sacrificing a few years, or even being able to run, then you aren't looking at the bigger picture.

thanks for all the great advice- future doctor- what is your specialty? it sounds like you've already been through the ringer.

the ACGME instituted an 80 hour work week several years ago,ie over a four week period, a resident cannot average over 80h/week and shifts are limited to 24 hours additional time allowed for didiactics and finishing up, must be out by 2PM, next day). Also must have one 24 hour period off per week. The rules are a little more complicated...surgery has a 10% gray area.

Someone has to take up the slack and medical students may have longer hours now.

As an intern, I worked 36 hours on, 12 off, seven days a week, six weeks in a row in the ICU...130+ hour weeks.

80 hours/week is no big deal...I just finished a 28 hour shift.

In the last few years (I forget exactly when), it has become illegal for residents of any specialty to work more than 80 hours a week. Now this can be, and in a lot of cases is, circumvented by going to hide in a room and work on charts when you are supposed to be at home, but I think a real 36-hour in-hospital shift is a thing of the past.

it's funny how people bitch and moan about how much physicians make. you have 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, then at least three years of residency- that's essentially 11 years at the minimum without an income. plus you accrue shitloads of debt to pay for tuition and just to plain live. i put up drywall through college and work construction now in med school and did all the way through college, so i'm hoping to leave without any debt.

are any of you orthopedic surgeons? are the hours better for this? i seem to get along pretty well with the ortho guys. i have made all a's thus far, so hopefully i will be able to choose whatever specialty i want.

This will probably come off the wrong way, but what the hell school are you at that you can be working enough construction to stay debt-free yet still make all A's? I find that very hard to believe.

It can be done with focus, dedication, and taking a pass on most social life issues. If you are not wasting 4-5 hours of each day on watching TV, playing Xbox, drinking, etc. then you have plenty of time. The lack of time management is why most failures happen.

exactly. i have no tv. i haven't been out since the summer before i started med school. my tuition is 16k a year and i live above the garage of an old retired couple who let me live there for 200 a month plus having to mow their lawn when it needs it. i don't own a car. i ride my bike to school (which sucks ass in the winter or when it's raining). i don't have any insurance. i honestly can eat on 3 dollars a day, even less when the school has afternoon lectures that bring pizza, sandwiches, etc.(great time to stock up on free pop into the bookbag then too!) i get up at 4:30 and study until class starts at 8. go to class from 8 to about 4 unless we have a late anatomy lab or lecture or something. i'm at the job site by 5 and at the latest 6. my foreman is pretty good about letting me get in as many hours as possible. i'm very experienced in tiling and drywall since i've done it all through college as well. i usually work until about 8 or so. saturdays i work from 7 am until 5 and then study until about 11 or so. basically the same thing on Sundays. i really do get jealous about the guys who come home and are able to mess around everyday. i guess my time will come. speaking of, i need to get back to reading. we're off of lectures for the day and i'm taking waaaay too many studybreaks here in the library!

Wow. I mean best of luck to you buddy but it sounds to me like you are heading straight towards being one of those unhappy, unhealthy surgeons referred to above (although actually most of the surgeons I've had contact with have been fine people.) You've got no time to unwind, something will explode sooner or later.

Forgot to mention that in your spare time you put on a cape and hunt down alkaida terrorists.

Is booty time w/nurses included in the 36 hr shifts?

future doctor wrote:

People in other professions work long hours too, nothing special about being a doctor and doing it.

That's very true.

I work a ton of hours, but I'm not in danger of leaving a sponge inside a person while I'm balancing my debits and credits. I make a mistake when I'm tired, it's easily corrected. You make a mistake when you're tired and somebody dies. Hahaha. But then again, I hate my job. It's all relative I suppose.

Go to dental school. Dentist work when they want, where they want, on who they want. Avg dentist = 36 hrs/wk. We also make more than gen physicians, even w/o the residency.