Van Niekerk 800m

dsrunner wrote, in part:

"When you line up for an 800 the ability to displace from metabolic equilibrium is rather crucial." I agree, and that's true for the 400 too. Wayde was taken to the hospital after the Rio final:

http://www.eurosport.com/athletics/world-championships/2015/wayde-van-niekerk-collapses-after-winning-gold-taken-to-hospital_sto4879319/story.shtml

Amos was taken off the field after the London 800 final on a stretcher:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3174461/Nijel-Amos-avenges-London-2012-loss-idol-David-Rudisha-Anniversary-Games.html

"This partitioning of energy systems is silly and archaic because energy systems operate synergistically." I agree that they operate synergistically and that's the point of having your VLaMax balanced to be appropriate for your event. If you are in great 400 shape, you might rig like a MF in the later stages of an 800 because there are limits to how much the aerobic system can mop up the protons and whatever else makes you rig.

"Oxygen independent capacity also partially offsets oxygen dependent energy requirements, especially early exercise." Wayde was pretty even with Kirani and Lashawn at 300 in the Rio final. Unless you are in a race that gives bonuses for leading at intermediate points, what happens late exercise is more important.

This type of thinking comes up every few week. X is so fast. Running 10% slower should be so easy for him.

Here's the thing. It's not. Yes, Bolt can run 9.7 for 100. That does not mean 10.7 is so easy he can keep going for 4-5 more of them.

Running fast at shorter distance has NO correlation with how fast someone can be at longer distances.

Van Niekerk might be able to run a great 800 with training, but his 100-400 speed has very little to do with it. I've known sprinters who could move up, and many who could not...and you can't tell ahead of time.

bloat wrote:

This type of thinking comes up every few week. X is so fast. Running 10% slower should be so easy for him.

Here's the thing. It's not. Yes, Bolt can run 9.7 for 100. That does not mean 10.7 is so easy he can keep going for 4-5 more of them.

Running fast at shorter distance has NO correlation with how fast someone can be at longer distances.

Van Niekerk might be able to run a great 800 with training, but his 100-400 speed has very little to do with it. I've known sprinters who could move up, and many who could not...and you can't tell ahead of time.

Er, NO correlation? At all? Really?

Two runners want to break 40 mins for 10km. Runner A's best 5km time is 19:00. Runner B's best 5km time is 20:00. Who's got more chance of running 40:00 for 10km?

I say Wayde could run under 1:50 in Rio Shape.

Merritt ran an 800 in college tho and said he ran (only) 1:58. So it's hard to say. Like others have stated, you can't really know what a 400m runner can run for an 800, simply by looking at their 400 PR. but, I find threads like this to be entertaining.

Hi calculo:

I'm not defending dsrunner, just guessing who his "WR" candidates might be.

"WR for runner who can split 44 is 1:41", guessing Amos 44.1 split in heats at Beijing 2015

"WR for runner who can split 45 is 1:42", guessing Coe with same PR in the 800 as Amos as Coe has 45.5 relay split

WR for runner who can split 46 is 1:43" could be a bunch of people, not sure who he had in mind

dsrunner wrote, in part, "VO2 does not circumvent power requirements."

You are on to something with power. This is the best discussion I've seen about the interaction of power, VO2, and LaMax:

http://www.lactate.com/swimming/swtstres.htm

Of course dsrunner might dismiss it as outdated since it came from the same lactate.com site as another link I posted. One possible graph not shown is if your LaMax is too high it can mess up your 200 swim, roughly equivalent to 800 run in duration.

dsrunner wrote, in part, in another post:

"WR for runner who can split 45 is 1:42" but the WR for guys who can't split anywhere near 45 (thinking Symmonds, Cram, Peter Elliott among others) is also 1:42. I guess your point is you don't believe that great 400 ability can be considered in any way a negative for 800 potential.

SlowFatMaster wrote:Hi calculo:

I'm not defending dsrunner, just guessing who his "WR" candidates might be.

"WR for runner who can split 44 is 1:41", guessing Amos 44.1 split in heats at Beijing 2015

chubby

it has to be open 400

i'm objective & i reckon, soon to be 70y Ryun here was on a '70 track in this brief vid :

~ 44.00 / 1'38.96

His 43.03 is one of the records I just don't believe was clean. So if you throw in EPO use, I would say 1:44

Pure Speculation wrote:

I doubt it...the energy demands between the two events are so different at the world class level. I bet he could run 1:50.

Yes, with a lot of 800 specific training he might get close to 1:50. He's a sub 20 200 meter runner, so he's definitely a sprinter. He's never going to give the 800 a serious try though.

AJ2000 wrote:

For you to say this guy would struggle to break 1:50 just goes to show how insecure you are yourselves at failing to do so!

This is true. I can barely look myself in the mirror for this reason. In fact, I'm going to lace up my shoes and go try again right now. I'll be right back...

.......

...Dammit, another 2:45. I hate myself.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

Hi ventolin^3

I'm not defending dsrunner, just guessing who his "WR" candidates might be.

"WR for runner who can split 44 is 1:41", guessing Amos 44.1 split in heats at Beijing 2015

"WR for runner who can split 45 is 1:42", guessing Coe with same PR in the 800 as Amos as Coe has 45.5 relay split

WR for runner who can split 46 is 1:43" could be a bunch of people, not sure who he had in mind

Thought I should fix that for you since you appeared to not realize who you were talking to.

You guys are spending too much into exercise physiology about why VN can't be a good 800 runner. His 200 is too fast??? Laughable! His speed is exactly the reason he can be the first sub 1:40. Maybe he runs the 800 like a long sprint. Get out HARD and hang on.

22, 23,24,25.

45+49= 1:34

Motivation is the bigger issue. WR holder champ at 400 might not be too keen on taking on the reigning 800 WR holder champ.

If he can just hang on, then by the same logic Rudisha should just be able to go out a little faster and cruise to a 43.2x. Except that probably isn't likely to happen.

Yes, I am aware that calculo = ventolin = eldrick from Track and Field News message board.

AJ2000 wrote:

without specific sessions he could go 1:45 with ease, at least. breaking 1:40 however, tough task but at his age it would be do able

The 1:40 barrier was broken in 1967.