Road Racing and Training Thread- Week Ending March 26, 2017

Male: 27, Goal: Sub 2:50 at Boston 4/17

M - 5 easy

T - 4 easy

W - 4 easy

T - 10 - 2.5 mi warmup 8x800 progression w/ 200 jog rest (2:58, 2:59, 2:49, 2:46, 2;42, 2:45, 2:43, 2:36) 2.5 mi cooldown

F - 4 easy

S - 20 long run ~7:45 pace

S - 4 easy

Weekly total - 51 milesy

Okay week. Needed a little more recovery than expected after last week's HM so didn't get the mileage I' hoped. The 800s were fine. But man the difference in 5:50 pace and 5:30 pace feels crazy. And nothing makes ya appreciate the pros more than running one 800 at 5:12 pace and literally keeling to your ankles in search of oxygen.

20 miler was from mile 4 to 24 on the Boston course. Hadn't seen it before. Those hills are no joke.

@learningcurve great race. 2:45 IMO is still not an ambitious goal for you. That's a lot of speed. Were you not doing such high mileage I'd say stick with 2:50 but on 90+ mile weeks I don't think you'll have any problem.

@runn3rgirl awesome weekend run. what kind of pup? (huge dog lover here)

@run2death you. are. a. beast.

Alright, stepping out of the shadows because I need to verbalize somewhere what's only been internalized for 24 hrs, even though ya'll are faster than me. Maybe someone can tell me I'm a fool.

Using Hanson's Marathon Method...

Sunday - 16 @ 8:23 pace, but last 6 progression from 8->7:30

Monday - 5 easy

Tuesday 1 up, 2x3mi @ 6:55 w/ 1mi recovery, 1 down

Wednesday - 5 easy

Thursday - 1 up, 9 @ 7:34, 1 down

Friday - 8 easy

Saturday off

Total = 54 miles, second most I've ever run in a week (averaging 41mpw in 2017 and 52.5mpw in March after never running more than 40mpw ever before)

Then...

Sunday 3/26- Half marathon race in 1:28 low (previous PR 1:35high). Started with 7:00 pace goal because no taper, scrapped that after a few miles of feeling good, ran a 2 minute negative split with a 6:19 last mile.

I've been planning to run a full marathon in 4 weeks with a sub 3:20 goal. Now considering scrapping that plan to run a late spring or early summer full and shoot for a BQ with the extra 6-8 weeks of training (10-12 weeks from now). Ordinarily I would just run the race and schedule a fall BQ attempt, but my wife is due to have our first baby in late August so I don't expect to have the same time to commit to this for quite awhile after that. Don't think 1:28 on 50 miles a week is good enough indicator that I can actually run 3:03-3:04 in 4 weeks even if that's what the calculators say. (and that's likely not good enough to actually get to Boston anyway) Any tips?

(30 y/o male)

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

(30 y/o male)

I don't think it's crazy. Running such a big negative split indicates a bit faster than 1:28 so I don't think 7:05 pace (for 3:03ish) is that crazy. I ran 2:58 averaging about 50 mpw so your mileage isn't bad. But it depends on how well you've done in your long runs.

What types of long runs have you done over the past two months? What are your other P.R.s? What marathons are you considering this spring?

I am a huge dog lover too! She's a black border Collie Rescue Lab! :) How do you add a photo on here? I'll post one of her with her medal.

I have another yellow rescue lab but she's way too excited and crazy to run with.

That's her with her medal!!

Agree that it is not a crazy goal, especially with 10 weeks of training and 2 weeks of taper left. As Think points out, the key will be your long runs - and you still have plenty of time to get in meaningful long runs before the marathon. The other key will be getting in some fair amount of work at goal marathon pace (10-13 miles). Ideally, it would be nice if you had gotten in a few decently long long runs for your half so that bumping up to 18 in the immediate future and 20 in the not too distant future would be reasonable.

Thinkaboutit - That's part of the thing with the Hanson's basic plan. Only 1 15 mile run and 2 16 mile runs and I'm 4 weeks out from my original planned race, but I have felt really strong at the end of those. There is also a 9 mile "strength" run every week (6 broken into intervals @7:00 pace) and 8-10 MP miles (that I've been running at 7:30) in a 10-12 mile run every week which always feels really controlled now...have been trying to hold myself back to learn the right pace. The idea of waiting a few more weeks and finding a new race would include bumping up the mileage a little bit more and maybe sneak in a little bit longer (or at least more) long runs.

On the one hand, I do not handle heat well, so that's a risk with later marathons. On the other, if I don't get to run a 3:1X marathon this spring because I had at least a feasible shot at a BQ that didn't work out, I don't think I'd be upset.

Old PRs are almost all irrelevant - low 18s for 5k as a cross country runner in high school on maybe 20-30 mpw? 3:25 marathon in college on 3-4 day a week "run faster" type plan that peaked with one 20 miler and maybe 40mpw peak. Took 6 years off and just started getting back into it about 15 months ago, so I didn't do much racing last year outside of a couple halves (including the prior 1:35 high PR from last November).

Haven't looked at other race options in detail. Willing to travel, but not all weekends are open.

Smoove...I think I'm well set up to bump up to 18 immediately. Been handling 16 fine. I would also need to find a good late season race. You two have at least talked me into looking at a marathon calendar more closely.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Smoove...I think I'm well set up to bump up to 18 immediately. Been handling 16 fine. I would also need to find a good late season race. You two have at least talked me into looking at a marathon calendar more closely.

which area of the country do you live/are looking to do the late spring/early summer marathon? The training you've been doing will set you up nicely for a marathon specific block targeting a race 10-12 weeks from now, think of the work you've done as a base for that. You sound like you're progressing well, and the paces are coming down, and you've got that block of time to extend distance/pace now if you choose to do so.

June 17 Grandma's Marathon...registration still open and that's 12 weeks out counting this week. July 4 Portland "Foot Traffic Flat Marathon" small, but really late and really flat and I have that week off anyway. Maybe a couple options...

learningcurve wrote:

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Smoove...I think I'm well set up to bump up to 18 immediately. Been handling 16 fine. I would also need to find a good late season race. You two have at least talked me into looking at a marathon calendar more closely.

which area of the country do you live/are looking to do the late spring/early summer marathon? The training you've been doing will set you up nicely for a marathon specific block targeting a race 10-12 weeks from now, think of the work you've done as a base for that. You sound like you're progressing well, and the paces are coming down, and you've got that block of time to extend distance/pace now if you choose to do so.

I have airline miles and a supportive wife who wants another reason to visit Boston if I can make it happen, because we used to live there, so most locations are open for a good race.

I have only heard good things about Grandma's. It is probably next on my list if I ever run a 4th marathon. June is intimidating from a weather standpoint, but they have historically gotten decent weather, I think. Plus, while it is not a flat course, my understanding is that most people like the rolling nature of the course because it allows you to engage your different muscle groups with a different emphasis over the course of the race, but while not having any truly huge hills.

Goal - Boston 2:45ish

M - 5

T - am 3, pm 8

W - am 4, pm 3*

T - am 4, pm 12 as 3 up, 10k105% (36:11), 3 down

F - am 3, pm 6

S - 20 as 1 up, 13.1@MP (1:21:xx), 6 easy

S - 7.5 hike

Wednesday pm was supposed to be my 10k workout because I wanted a couple days between that and the half marathon. Unfortunately, I got out to run and 1.5 miles in the storm of the century blew in. Next thing I know I'm hoping power poles don't fall on me, i'm dodging tree branches, and I cannot see anything through all the dust. I turned around and ran home as fast as I could.

Thursday 10k was scary easy. I almost expected it to be a lot of work and to perhaps scale it back to 2x5k or something. Got rolling and it just felt good so kept going with it for the full 10k. Honestly felt like I could have stretched it to 15k if I wanted to. The time is a bit optimistic I think and would actually peg it probably more around high 36 to 37 flat.

Saturday race pace run at a half marathon. Got there late, ran a mile warm up, went out at 6:10-15 and just held it there through 9 miles and then picked it up a little bit more. Finished in 1:21 feeling pretty good.

Anyone else in this thread have pronounced Achilles that rub on the back of shoes?

Mine seem to be getting worse. It's getting to point where not only do I have to wear socks, but I have to wear an additional wrap around my ankles or I'll finish my run with bloody ankles.

run2death wrote:

Anyone else in this thread have pronounced Achilles that rub on the back of shoes?

Mine seem to be getting worse. It's getting to point where not only do I have to wear socks, but I have to wear an additional wrap around my ankles or I'll finish my run with bloody ankles.

I've been encountering that lately as I've been trying different shoes to find something I'd like to stick to. A lot of times it has to do with a rigid heal counter that kind of protrudes into the Achilles. The LunaRacers scratched me up pretty good

also hear good things about Grandma's and it's also on my bucket list. Have also heard that lodging can be difficult to find though since it's a smaller town but maybe AirBnB's make it easier nowadays

run2death wrote:

Anyone else in this thread have pronounced Achilles that rub on the back of shoes?

Mine seem to be getting worse. It's getting to point where not only do I have to wear socks, but I have to wear an additional wrap around my ankles or I'll finish my run with bloody ankles.

Had this prob last spring/summer. I kept rock tape or kt tape on it every run

Runrincerepeat wrote:

run2death wrote:

Anyone else in this thread have pronounced Achilles that rub on the back of shoes?

Mine seem to be getting worse. It's getting to point where not only do I have to wear socks, but I have to wear an additional wrap around my ankles or I'll finish my run with bloody ankles.

Had this prob last spring/summer. I kept rock tape or kt tape on it every run

if it's a footwear issue, it could potentially cause insertional Achilles tendinitis or retrocalcaneal bursitis if it digs in rather than just rubbing