Experienced (older) Letsrunners : I'm low income - should I work more or enjoy life

Question for you - do you budget every month? If you don't control your spending, it won't matter how much or how little you make. My wife and I are high income earners, and for a long time, felt like we were in a precarious financial position. Once we started budgeting, telling our money what to do instead of spending just happening, things totally changed.

I think you could actually have a really good life, with a secure retirement, etc. at your current income level, provided you budget, pay off any debt you have as fast as you can, and then start saving. Some of this might require a change in how you spend your money. It's not necessarily easy, but it is worthwhile.

Going back to school is not a cure-all, particularly if you take out significant loans to pay for it. And, you didn't say what the degree would be in. You should pursue an advanced degree only if the return on the investment will exceed the cost (including opportunity cost).

beyond meeting basic needs, happiness seems to come from finding community and purpose in life. If you can meet basic needs and find community and a purpose for your life on your income and feel secure, then you are ok.

Avoid the advisors who are telling you to work your a$$ off. You might put yourself in a significantly better financial position - now and in the future - but you will certainly set yourself up to get stuck in that lifestyle. Don't create those life-sucking expectations for yourself or anyone else.

I do think people should plan for the future in terms of retirement, but try to find a balance. Too many people work and work and work for the future, and then they keel over before they get to enjoy the fruits of all that exhaustive labor. So try to sock a little money away and avoid debt...and then get living NOW!

Adding kids to the mix definitely makes it a bit more challenging but there's no law that says being married and having a child means you need to be making 6 figures and rotting away in an office for 60+ hours either.

I used to think the exact same way but I've simplified things so much that I'm way happier. Nice cars have lost all their luster to me, never wanted a McMansion of a home, love to travel but don't require five star hotels and lavish vacations. The only difference is I have no kids and really lack the desire to ever have any. I'll still be able to retire well before 80 but it won't be on the retirement figure a lot of people think they need. Pretty sure I'll seek out another country to retire in that has a much simpler way of life and lower cost of living.

Get a grip wrote:

With all due respect, you sound like a loser. No kids, no wife, no real responsibilities and you are worried that working more than 25 hours a week will be stifling? I am sure that my situation is pretty similar to many folks on this board...working 60 hours a week in competitive environment, making good ( not great ) money ( mid 6 figures ), married with two kids in nice schools, and still find time to run 75 miles a week. If I was a slacker the age of 30 then I wouldn't have anything to show for it. I haven't missed out on any great life experiences. Put your big boy pants on and start working like an adult. Putting in 50 hours a week without parental / marital commitments is like a part time job. Make some money and save some money now before it is too late.

Mid six figures isn't great money? Like, $500k mid six figures? You can do anything you want with that sort of income (outside of maybe 5 places in the US).

And ditto to all the early saving. Took me until I was 28 to really get serious about and save 30%+ of my income....wish I would have started from my first job. Now I feel poor just because I'm maxing out all the tax advantaged accounts I can (Roth IRA, Roth 401k, HSA, 529).

I do meet a lot of people in their 50s who regret not putting away more when they were younger - a dollar put away 30 years ago at 5% compounded return is worth over four times that today. Gotta start somewhere.

Oh and bust your butt now so you have the option to be lazy later. Words I try to live by.

$45 k is more than most Americans make, including those with families, and you manage it on 20 hours a week? You have it made. Why change?

Worked 50-60 hour weeks for 30 years making about 60k a year. Fk that enjoy life if I die tomorrow all them hours didn't mean shit.

You should be looking for a sugar mama.

Mid six figures = $130,000 to $170,000 annually.

HRE wrote:

$45 k is more than most Americans make, including those with families, and you manage it on 20 hours a week? You have it made. Why change?

exactly. 45k is not getting rich (far from it) but you are not low income.

What you should do with your future is up to you to decide.

Say (just speculating) that you want to get married and have kids. If your wife works and makes what you do, you have a family income of 90k. You can live quite well in most of the country on that amount of money.

Want somebody to stay home w the kids? Well, you are only working 20 hrs/wk, so you have a great head-start. But you may need to make choices, save, etc.

of you can choose to do something about raising your income. But starting with a realistic assessment of where you are would be a good first step.

I'm going to graduate medical school this spring. Will be starting my internship in July. I'm around your age so I can relate. My advice is go pursue your career in a meaningful way right now. Also save money for retirement ASAP. This is particularly important because entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are not sustainable right now. Securing your financial future right now is the best option so you're not miserable in your 50s and 60s. Securing your financial future means dropping consumption and raising your savings rate. Your goal should be to achieve financial independence before 60 years old.

When I'm super busy I can only run 30 mpw. When I have more flexibility with my schedule I run 70 mpw. I am not as fast as I once was, but life is all about achieving a balance and my career, relationship, and hobbies are balanced right now.

I'm in greater than $200,000 in student loan debt right now, but I'm very bullish on my future because I'm committed to attaining financial independence before 60 years old by saving aggressively.

Get an ADHD diagnosis.

Find something you are interested in that is not easy to do and makes money. Do that.

Of course the answer is - it depends on what you want!!

That said, I'm a person who has had some life experience and at this point the advice I would give someone is to spend less. Spend less and live a simple, healthy lifestyle. Not many people at the end of their life said, "I wish I would have spent more time at the office".

The second bit of advice would be to not spend too much time, energy and effort trying to find work that you "love" or are "passionate about". Not many people in this world can make a living doing their hobby. Some do, but the vast majority of us just have to work. Make sure that you're in the range of what your general interest are, but that's good enough from a realistic standpoint. For example, if your'e a super creative and artistic person you will be miserable working as an auditor for an accounting firm. If you are a person who loves structure then the opposite applies.

$130-170 seems more like low 6. I would think mid six would be more like $300-600 and upper 6 figures would be $600+

Not that it really matters and I guess it seems pretty douchey for me to even be splitting hairs about it.

goobledygook wrote:

No one ever laid on their death bed and thought, "I really wish I had worked more."

This is true. But if experiences are what you're chasing, you need some cash. Yes, you can camp every weekend at the local campground and call that adventurous freedom, but having some jack to visit Yosemite once a year with your pals, or trek the Himalayas, or visit New Zealand's South Island - or whatever the heck floats your boat - is a lot more doable with some disposable income. Make decisions now to ensure freedom later. You don't need to pack all these experiences in while you're in your 20's. Get the Masters, take the internship, sacrifice now... and your 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s will f'n rock.

You're not really picking between two extremes, dude. Just find the place in the middle that you're most comfortable with. That's where happiness lies.

$45k is enough to live comfortably while you're single and still leave money for travel. But when that first kid comes along that money is going to feel small really quick. You implied marriage and creating little Ultimate Questions is likely a priority, so:

1) Don't take another job just yet

2) Set up a retirement account and contribute

3) Use ALL THE REST of your spare change to do the things you want to do now

4) Continue this for 3-5 years

5) When marriage is looming over you like a grim reaper.... get that 2nd job

You can travel the world cheaper than you think. Especially if you're single.

If you can make $80-100k on 40 hrs/wk and live in a reasonable area, you will be comfortable with a wife and kids.

Good luck, brother.

Haha well calling someone a loser and judging them on their lifestyle takes a bit of the credibility out of your advice but I appreciate in nonetheless

Get a grip wrote:

With all due respect, you sound like a loser. No kids, no wife, no real responsibilities and you are worried that working more than 25 hours a week will be stifling? I am sure that my situation is pretty similar to many folks on this board...working 60 hours a week in competitive environment, making good ( not great ) money ( mid 6 figures ), married with two kids in nice schools, and still find time to run 75 miles a week. If I was a slacker the age of 30 then I wouldn't have anything to show for it. I haven't missed out on any great life experiences. Put your big boy pants on and start working like an adult. Putting in 50 hours a week without parental / marital commitments is like a part time job. Make some money and save some money now before it is too late.

The simple answer is to take the time to think about what you are truly passionate about and then figure out a way to do that for a living. However, in my experience, most people are simply not passionate about anything. They just sort of are and float through life (but see below). Given you are already 30 and you're still drifting that could be you - but, take the time now to be brutally honest about what truly makes you happy. Not what makes other people happy, but what makes you happy.

A simple test - if your alarm goes off at 4am and: (1) you are excited to get out of bed do that thing, despite being tired vs. (2) you feel like you are in hell, do not want to go do that thing, but would rather go back to sleep.

And, to be clear, for some people what makes them happy is not any job but what they do when they aren't working. But, you need to eat, so for them they'd take option 2, make a living and be happy.... and ultimately, that is the answer. You only get one go round, so live your life in a way that makes you happy. Different things make different people happy - some people love a career and working long hours, others really only want family, others want much less. You have to figure out what makes you happiest and nobody else can do that for you.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions. This has, by far, been the most helpful post personally I’ve ever asked.

Below are some comments/points that heavily resonated with me. I’ll post a plan shortly on how I intend to go about life!

“I think you could actually have a really good life, with a secure retirement, etc. at your current income level, provided you budget, pay off any debt you have as fast as you can, and then start saving” – BeAMan

"If you can meet basic needs and find community and a purpose for your life on your income then you are ok" - agip

"I do think people should plan for the future in terms of retirement, but try to find a balance. Too many people work and work and work for the future, and then they keel over before they get to enjoy the fruits of all that exhaustive labor. So try to sock a little money away and avoid debt...and then get living NOW!" – also 52 years old

"I used to think the exact same way but I've simplified things so much that I'm way happier." – working stiff

"Spend less and live a simple, healthy lifestyle. Not many people at the end of their life said, "I wish I would have spent more time at the office"."

"The second bit of advice would be to not spend too much time, energy and effort trying to find work that you "love" or are "passionate about". Not many people in this world can make a living doing their hobby. Some do, but the vast majority of us just have to work. Make sure that you're in the range of what your general interest are, but that's good enough from a realistic standpoint." – John Utah

"Make decisions now to ensure freedom later." - datruph

So some common themes that I take to heart:

Be Frugal & Save

Find Balance

Find the closest thing you are passionate too where you can make a living

Put in the effort now while young and no kids

I’ll post soon with a daily schedule and see what you guys think. I am still up in the air about what to do with my spare time but this will help guide me a lot.