Germany is going hard at fusion and the US is talking about bringing back coal. WTF?

Trumpppp wrote:

"Take America Back Again" means return the US to the Republican ideal, which is the 1950s. Fusion has no place in the 50s.

Just abused environment, abused and repressed women, disease, cars that will kill you, toys that will kill you, just about everything that will kill you, People Who Are Not White abused, and creation of yet another Boogeyman - this time anyone who doesn't want to live like it's 1950. Heil Trump!

Almost right.

'Make America great again' is an amazing tagline. It is vague enough that it has no real meaning, yet it is powerful enough to make Trumps followers feel they all have a sense of belonging and unity.

The time period of 'again' is different for everyone. For some old folks, it is perhaps the 40's when they were kids. For others, pre-MLKJ America was the ideal. Some people even remember where there were fewer brown faces around their neighbourhood in the 70's and even 80's.

Conservatism is about resisting change. Unfortunately for most Republicans, change happens anyway. And so the never ending battle to reverse things goes on, even if not all the Republicans can agree on when to try and go back to. So Trump has really played a blinder.

Keep playing the race card. Just keep doing it.

The truth is that it's the Democrats who want to go back in time. They need blacks to believe they are victims of slavery and segregation. They need Native Americans to believe whites want to give them polio. They want Asians to think Republicans will put them in concentration camps. They want hispanics to think that the war for the Southwest is still raging. They want Muslims to think Christians are still waging a Crusade.

The Republicans want to bring back all the good things that worked.

The Democrats want people to think that all the bad things are still going on.

But go ahead and call me a racist. See what that get's ya. More Trumps.

off base wrote:

hgjgugiub wrote:

No, YOUR idea is actually nonsense not mine. Coal is infinitely more working than fusion is. The economics support this. Trying to bring coal back will do several good things (along with some bad things). Your entire post is offbase.

I never said fusion works. The economics do not support coal growth and coal that is why coal is dying. This has been well documented. I'm curious though as to what you think the "several good things" that will come of brining back coal are.

Coal dying huh?

I’ve been looking at the use of coal worldwide as we have a debate here in Britain about closing down all our coal generating plants.

I found since 2011 Germany has opened 10.7 GW of new coal fired power stations. This is more new coal capacity than was constructed in the entire two decades after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the expected annual electricity production of these power stations far exceeds that of existing solar panels and is approximately the same as that of Germany’s existing solar panels and wind turbines combined - when the wind blows of course.

Across the border in Poland, energy security being their first priority, 85% of their electricity is generated from coal.

And I found was that the recent much acclaimed Paris Agreement on reducing carbon emissions is a joke, giving ’emerging nations’ a blank cheque.

Stretching the expression ‘emerging’ to barely credible limits, Japan, who would die for our (British) coal reserves, has chosen that form of generation after their nuclear shut down, 46 new plants building or in the planning stage.

China the main emission ‘villain’ has made a token nod to renewables, but despite an overcapacity, is still building (more efficient) new coal power plans and not generally realised, is also building coal powered plants in 27 other countries, the 14 along the Vietnamese coast being one example.

Indonesia with huge coal reserves is increasing its consumption and is in the process of constructing 117 new coal power plants throughout the archipelago.

India, with over 300 million without access to electricity, is in no mood to mess about, opening two new coal mines each month, aiming for a billion tonnes excavated yearly by 2020. 65 GW of new coal plant is under construction right now and if their aim of 300 GW new production by 2030 is achieved - nearly 600 new coal plants would be required.

Closer to here in Britain, Turkey plans to build as many as 80 new coal plants in the next few years on top of the 25 that already exist.

So I don’t think we have seen the end of coal as a primary source of electricity generation for some time yet.

I think some Republicans would want all those things you just mentioned to come back... The Crusades in the Middle East have been going pretty hard for the last 60 years.

Those things you mentioned you have literally just made up right now and aren't real, such is the Politics of Fear, so I'll forgive you for not changing your ways in one post. I'll assume the derivative of that rambling came from the fact that many Republicans such as yourself believe that Black and minority communities don't suffer any injustices any more, and play on being victims to get a leg up. Maybe the Blacks are getting a little bit too much unfair favourable treatment and actually need a bit of beating down again? Institutional racism is real but you are just too obtuse to understand it. Which is ironic, because I would bet any money that presented with two equal candidates, one White male and one Black female, you'd personally hire the White male in a heartbeat.

The 'Left' as what you would call them, look at problems facing people today and try to improve the situation. As was the attempt with Obamacare.

What are the good things Republicans want to bring back? And bring them back from when?

Counting on fusion now would be foolhardy. I remember how fifteen years ago fusion was said to be right around the corner, and twenty years before that, and it was also said twenty years before that. Doing fusion research is wise, however, as a long-term solution. Germany has dropped more than 1/4 in emissions since 1990, but it is true that dropping nuclear power and using coal in part to compensate has caused minor increases and a departure from their emissions cuts. However, at the same time, they have increased renewable energy to 1/3 of the total, which is pretty incredible. With wind and solar now cheaper than even natural gas in the U.S. the future is clearly in clean energy and we would be absolutely foolhardy not to pursue this huge future economic sector. I'm no fan of breathing polluted air. Are you?

jjjjj wrote:

Counting on fusion now would be foolhardy. I remember how fifteen years ago fusion was said to be right around the corner, and twenty years before that, and it was also said twenty years before that. Doing fusion research is wise, however, as a long-term solution. Germany has dropped more than 1/4 in emissions since 1990, but it is true that dropping nuclear power and using coal in part to compensate has caused minor increases and a departure from their emissions cuts. However, at the same time, they have increased renewable energy to 1/3 of the total, which is pretty incredible. With wind and solar now cheaper than even natural gas in the U.S. the future is clearly in clean energy and we would be absolutely foolhardy not to pursue this huge future economic sector. I'm no fan of breathing polluted air. Are you?

Trumpians are fan of polluted air as that's what the air was like 'when they were growing up'. Didn't do them any harm, except for maybe cancer of the soul.

Coal is a cheap way to get started for emerging economies. It does not make economic sense in the US any more. Part of that is due to the marked conditions created by fracking.

HardLoper wrote:

Right now Germany is the one bringing back coal, because they are trying to phase out nuclear for some reason (probably an environmentalist's idea).

Used to respect you 3-4 years ago. But now? You are one of the stupidest people on LRC, Dutch boy.

Nowhere else? wrote:

...

The 'Left' as what you would call them, look at problems facing people today and try to improve the situation. As was the attempt with Obamacare.

What are the good things Republicans want to bring back? And bring them back from when?

Dare's yer probm rot dare! Yer got yer road paved wit all dem good tentions, but it still leads rot ter Hell!

Democrats think they can use the government to solve every problem and never seem to realize that most of our problems are caused by government "solutions" like ObamaCare.

I want to bring market forces back into the health care system so that competition can drive down prices, improve quality, and provide more health care than a government run program ever could. You know, like we used to do when it worked.

DiscoGary wrote:

Dare's yer probm rot dare! Yer got yer road paved wit all dem good tentions, but it still leads rot ter Hell!

Democrats think they can use the government to solve every problem and never seem to realize that most of our problems are caused by government "solutions" like ObamaCare.

I want to bring market forces back into the health care system so that competition can drive down prices, improve quality, and provide more health care than a government run program ever could. You know, like we used to do when it worked.

Healthcare was ruined by republicans letting it get taken over by insurances companies and pharmaceuticals. Market forces drove down the quality of healthcare with insurance companies trying to make money with fixed payouts thus screwing hospitals, doctors and patients.

DiscoGary wrote:

Nowhere else? wrote:

...

The 'Left' as what you would call them, look at problems facing people today and try to improve the situation. As was the attempt with Obamacare.

What are the good things Republicans want to bring back? And bring them back from when?

Dare's yer probm rot dare! Yer got yer road paved wit all dem good tentions, but it still leads rot ter Hell!

Democrats think they can use the government to solve every problem and never seem to realize that most of our problems are caused by government "solutions" like ObamaCare.

I want to bring market forces back into the health care system so that competition can drive down prices, improve quality, and provide more health care than a government run program ever could. You know, like we used to do when it worked.

You actually think the current healthcare system, of extortionate prices and rip of insurance companies, is a product of liberals? Liberals want healthcare to be accessible for all, like the NHS system in the UK. Middle and upper class Republicans want healthcare to be expensive so it isn't cluttered with immigrants and low wage workers.

Please, get an education. The AMA has campaigned and lobbied and spent billions of dollars over its long history trying to make sure there was no centralized insurance policy put in place by the government and to ensure there are a limited amount of doctors trained each year. It's a money making scheme.

There has NEVER been affordable healthcare in America. Your utopia you want to return to simply doesn't exist. Same goes for all your other utopias. Trumpville is a fictional place.

Ruru wrote:

hgjgugiub wrote:

It is not imaginary. There was certainly a time when things were better.

Please tell us what that time was, and why you think it was better.

Use both sides, if necessary.

No, seriously: when do you think things were better? (One datum to bear in mind: the peak of American industrial output was 2016.)

America was great

... when there was no Civil Rights Act of 1964.

... when there was no Voting Rights Act of 1965.

... when there was no Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

... when there was no Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.

... when there was no Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967.

... when there was no Fair Housing Act of 1968.

... when there was no Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

... when there was no Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974.

... when there was no Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

... when there was no Environmental Protection Agency.

... when there was no Clean Air Act.

... when there was no Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

We also had three TV channels on black and white TV. Turn-table players and vinyl records. One fixed phone per household. And manual typewriters to write letters and term papers. People knew how to use abacus because calculators were too expensive. We had no Medicare and Medicaid. Elderly and low income people had the freedom not to have any health insurance.

Those are the great times.

50 years ago it was normal for kids to play outside or at the neighbors without constant supervision.

Next door neighbors knew each other.

In the 1950's, rates divorce, single parenthood, and crime were much lower. Families weren't addicted to welfare for multiple generations.

Energy was getting massively cheaper every year, we were making innovative leaps in transportation, health care, and technology, and we even landed on the moon.

Then, the hippie liberals took over.

The questions to consider are as follows:

1) Do you want your children or would you yourself work in coal mines?

2) Do you want to have worse pollution than China at it's peak of pollution?

Regarding number 1, coal mining is by far the deadliest job on the planet. More people die from coal accidents then every other commodity mining combined. Coal built America, but talk to any coal miner and they will tell you they would prefer their children NEVER set foot in a coal mine.

Regarding number 2, we all know coal is the dirtiest energy source in existence. And fusion works in every other country except America. The reason being... Lobbyists. Coal lobbyists do not want you to know that fusion works amazingly in every other country. They tell you it fails when in reality it works perfect. Would I build fusion plants on the west coast in CA? Absolutely not, but every other state where earthquakes do not happen should be fair game.

Why do people think burning old vegetables (coal) is so horrible but they are all for burning new vegetables (corn)?

Yes, YES! These are the people who voted for Trump Gary. You and these people. Who live in the nostalgia-land of another-year. These times DIDN'T EXIST.

Energy was getting cheaper, till we started running out of fossil fuels.

Divorce was taboo and couples were forced to live unhappy marriages. Single mums quickly aborted or put children for adoption because of the shame society would bring on them.

Technological leaps are far, far faster nowadays you just take them for granted, look at the laptop you are using and try to imagine that as a possibility when you were a kid.

Healthcare was shit, death rates, expenses etc.

The moon landings were possibly the biggest waste of US taxpayers money ever. If any president tried to pull that stunt these days they'd be chased out of office.

Don't worry, Trump will bring all these things back for you anyway. You might have to share them with the Muslims and Mexicans, however.

Times Change.

no dessert for you..... wrote:

Why do people think burning old vegetables (coal) is so horrible but they are all for burning new vegetables (corn)?

Carbon cycle.... Growing corn uses up CO2... Digging up coal produces CO2 and then burning it makes some more (plus heavy air pollutants)

Energy was getting cheaper because we were developing technologies like nuclear. Once the hippies took over they stopped pursuing nuclear out of fear and started pursuing more inefficient sources like wind and solar and others that didn't work very well. Nuclear fusion is the answer and the more logical progression.

It is simply not true that people had unhappier marriages. Look it up. Marriages were overall happier than today and people had better interpersonal skills. They got along with the neighbors and kids played outside.

Apart from the Internet technology leaps are much slower and fewer. Planes look largely the same. Concorde doesn't exist anymore. Trains aren't much better. Helicopter from OAK to SF doesn't exist anymore probably because the hippies thought it was wasteful.

The moon landings were much less of a waste than the climate change research that NASA spends all its time doing now.

off base wrote:

Coal is a sinking ship.

Oh really?