Cuba, Si, Castro No.
Cuba, Si, Castro No.
The baby in this photo is now prime minister of Canada - Justin Trudeau.
With only a few exceptions, no system on Earth is more destructive than communism. Stalinist Cuba under Castro was no exception.
The shame of his passing is that it did not come in conjunction with piano wire, a lamp post and a jeering mob. Tyrants should not die a natural death.
Fidel Catro = what a great leader. He didn't even have to label his dissenters as racists because he just had them all murdered! brilliant! We as liberals could learn a lot from this Great Man. Hopefully he'll be reincarnated as a future U.S. President.
Cuba is going to be a third world disaster like Puerto Rico and cost us untold billions.
Fat Boy, Soros and Mugabe Next wrote:
With only a few exceptions, no system on Earth is more destructive than communism. Stalinist Cuba under Castro was no exception.
The shame of his passing is that it did not come in conjunction with piano wire, a lamp post and a jeering mob. Tyrants should not die a natural death.
You're right. Unfortunately, two of those exceptions, colonialism and transatlantic slavery, preceded and led to the rise of Castro.
Who's "fat boy"?
and Kaepernick is an idiot too
OBAMA STAYS HOME DEVASTATED!!
He'a a huge Castro fan
Murder Dubs wrote:
Crooked Hillary wrote:Oh, well then. I'd better rethink it. I'll disregard the murders and the torture and the imprisonment of opponents since YOU spent time there and life was so awesome for you.
What do you have to say about the U.S. government's support of the numerous Latin American and Caribbean dictatorships that ruled before and after Castro? Why don't you (or the American people generally) have a problem with them? I could name you several off the top of my head where the body count is several times that of Castro's regime.
Why don't you have a problem with the fact that the U.S. gov't supports dictatorships that have killed people by the hundreds of thousands? Are you aware that the U.S. gov't supported and funded Saddam Hussein? What about Saudi Arabia? What about apartheid South Africa? What about Pinochet? Batista? Samoza? Are you aware that we will soon be tacitly in support of Assad's bombing of his own people in Syria?
Tell me what was uniquely terrible about Castro.
My time in Cuba was not an experience of paradise. Cuba is a VERY difficult place to live with many problems imposed by its Castro-led history of communism and by the U.S.'s retaliatory embargo. It is a dictatorship.
But I know that it being a dictatorship is NOT why the U.S. gov't has been hostile toward it.
But because I have also spent time in other parts of the Caribbean, I, unlike most Americans, have a valid point of regional comparison. The Cuban gov't is probably less corrupt than those of other Caribbean countries. There is no epidemic of malnutrition, nor of out of control drug violence, both of which are regular features of neighboring countries like Jamaica and Haiti (plus there's AC in the buildings in Havana), which is why Jamaicans and Haitians immigrate to what you consider a hell hole of a country.
So what is your premise, exactly? That if I condemn Castro as a tyrant and a mass murderer, then I MUST ALWAYS at the same time condemn every other tyrant? Otherwise, I'm implicitly condoning their behavior?
Kim Jong-un.
Depending on which colonial example you are talking about, that statement could be mostly false. The colonialism in Cuba was far from benign and the Batista regime was a typical petty dictatorship, but what followed in Cuba was much much worse.
There are examples of colonialism which birthed prosperous societies, most of which were English like America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
The slave trade has always been ultimately a net loser for every society that has sullied their hands with it. That would be just about every society on Earth until Christian Europe in the Middle Ages largely abolished it within Europe.
Cuba, the American South, and all the other places slavery grew eventually paid a price for their ugly participation in evil.
Cuba should be one of the wealthiest countries, not one of the poorest and least free.
Fat Boy, Soros and Mugabe Next wrote:
Kim Jong-un.
Depending on which colonial example you are talking about, that statement could be mostly false. The colonialism in Cuba was far from benign and the Batista regime was a typical petty dictatorship, but what followed in Cuba was much much worse.
There are examples of colonialism which birthed prosperous societies, most of which were English like America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
The slave trade has always been ultimately a net loser for every society that has sullied their hands with it. That would be just about every society on Earth until Christian Europe in the Middle Ages largely abolished it within Europe.
Cuba, the American South, and all the other places slavery grew eventually paid a price for their ugly participation in evil.
Cuba should be one of the wealthiest countries, not one of the poorest and least free.
Fat Boy: Kim... Got it. Makes sense. He is pretty chunky. No 5Ks in his future unless he decrees that metrics must change
As for colonialism: Of course it worked better in certain situations than others. But if you are trying to argue that it is not responsible for great amounts of evil, you can't really pick and choose so selectively. The colonialism practiced in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold, the French colonization of Haiti, the colonization of Jamaica; the abuses committed in these and many, many other instances boggle the mind. If the death toll is lower than under Communist regimes, it is only because the weaponry during those pre-20th century epochs was less lethal.
As for slavery, your comment is an interesting one. I don't know that slavery was a "net-loss." I don't know that there are net figures that could prove or disprove that point. After mechanization of specific agricultural industries in the U.S. it became economically unproductive, which is part of the reason it was ended. However, prior to said mechanization it proved extremely lucrative (economically) in the American South and the Caribbean. Anyway, the human loss it entailed all over the Western world and elsewhere is indisputable.
About twice as many enslaved Africans were trafficked to the island of Cuba as to the entire U.S. mainland. When Castro began his revolution, only about seventy years after the end of slavery there, he started in the Eastern hills, where the black population, which was still mostly relegated to the plantations, is highest. That area of Cuba also sits on the cusp of Haiti and Jamaica and receives steady immigration from those countries. The most horrific slave systems and the deadliest rebellions against slavery took place in Haiti and Jamaica. It was this population that made up much of his fighting force for a reason: They were the downtrodden and dispossessed to whom Castro, with his message of total social revolution, appealed.
When you say that Batista's reign was so much less brutal than Castro's that doesn't, of course, take into account that Castro's revolution at least initially spoke not only to those who were oppressed by Batista (like Ted cruz's family, who left in the 50s) but to a much deeper history of oppression on the island and in the region.
Yeah, that's my premise. The problem with most politically conservative Americans when it comes to Cuba is that their disdain for Fidel is ideologically totally inconsistent with their support for leaders who have provided vast material support for dictators such as Pinochet (Nixon), Samoza and Botha (Reagan). Pinochet had dissenters dropped into volcanoes. I have people close to me whose loved ones were jailed and murdered by the Samoza and Botha regimes in Nicaragua and South Africa respectively while Reagan was shaking hands with those dictators and using covert means to keep them in power. Multiple American presidents co-signed Papa Doc's horrific regime in Haiti.
So, no, you cannot demonize Castro and cast a blind eye toward others who also murdered scores of their opponents and didn't do one-tenth of what Castro did in terms of social benefits to the poor (education, health care).
Even if you think Castro didn't do anything good, you can't demonize him and tacitly support the dictators I've named without being seen as fraudulent for it. But that's precisely what a vote for Nixon or Reagan or (perhaps; judgment reserved) Trump did.
Fat Boy, Soros and Mugabe Next wrote:
Cuba, the American South, and all the other places slavery grew eventually paid a price for their ugly participation in evil.
Absolutely true, sir. Part of that price was Gaspar Yanga (mexico). Part of that price was Dutty Bookman, Toussaint and Dessalines (Haiti). Part of that price was Nat Turner and John Brown (U.S.) And part of that price was Castro.
Yes, often the rebellion is as savage or mores than what it replaces. How else would you propose throwing off truly savage oppression?
It is constitutive of The Dream of the Western world that it will be able to reap forever the benefits of these great nations erected, in part, upon great violence and oppression without reaping also the whirlwind of those sins. But it is only a dream.
Murder Dubs wrote:
Crooked Hillary wrote:Yes, tyrants and liberals and murderers and others who hate freedom join you in your grief.
Meanwhile, DJ Trump only wants alliances with peace-loving, democratically supported leaders like Vladimir Putin and Assad... OK, buddy. Keep eating up the propaganda.
US News Media: Assad good, Fidel bad... Got it...
Having actually spent extensive time in Cuba, I know that Castro was a Putin-style dictator, but also that day to day life in Cuba is a good deal better than in the other large Caribbean countries like Jamaica, Haiti, etc.
Shut up, you libtaaaard loving socialist!!
Murder Dubs wrote:
Yeah, that's my premise. The problem with most politically conservative Americans when it comes to Cuba is that their disdain for Fidel is ideologically totally inconsistent with their support for leaders who have provided vast material support for dictators such as Pinochet (Nixon), Samoza and Botha (Reagan). Pinochet had dissenters dropped into volcanoes. I have people close to me whose loved ones were jailed and murdered by the Samoza and Botha regimes in Nicaragua and South Africa respectively while Reagan was shaking hands with those dictators and using covert means to keep them in power. Multiple American presidents co-signed Papa Doc's horrific regime in Haiti.
So, no, you cannot demonize Castro and cast a blind eye toward others who also murdered scores of their opponents and didn't do one-tenth of what Castro did in terms of social benefits to the poor (education, health care).
Even if you think Castro didn't do anything good, you can't demonize him and tacitly support the dictators I've named without being seen as fraudulent for it. But that's precisely what a vote for Nixon or Reagan or (perhaps; judgment reserved) Trump did.
Tell that to the Cubans who were imprisoned, murdered and whose properties & businesses were confiscated by the Castro Regime. Fuk you.
Go away, you pinko wrote:
Murder Dubs wrote:Yeah, that's my premise. The problem with most politically conservative Americans when it comes to Cuba is that their disdain for Fidel is ideologically totally inconsistent with their support for leaders who have provided vast material support for dictators such as Pinochet (Nixon), Samoza and Botha (Reagan). Pinochet had dissenters dropped into volcanoes. I have people close to me whose loved ones were jailed and murdered by the Samoza and Botha regimes in Nicaragua and South Africa respectively while Reagan was shaking hands with those dictators and using covert means to keep them in power. Multiple American presidents co-signed Papa Doc's horrific regime in Haiti.
So, no, you cannot demonize Castro and cast a blind eye toward others who also murdered scores of their opponents and didn't do one-tenth of what Castro did in terms of social benefits to the poor (education, health care).
Even if you think Castro didn't do anything good, you can't demonize him and tacitly support the dictators I've named without being seen as fraudulent for it. But that's precisely what a vote for Nixon or Reagan or (perhaps; judgment reserved) Trump did.
Tell that to the Cubans who were imprisoned, murdered and whose properties & businesses were confiscated by the Castro Regime. Fuk you.
This isn't a response to what I wrote. You are literally telling me to tell dispossessed Cuban-Americans that the American gov't has supported numerous dictators in Latin America around the world. You are telling me to tell them that at the same time they were doing this, they placed an embargo against Cuba and tried to kill Castro. You are telling me to tell them that Castro instituted a literacy campaign, universal health care and a pretty good education system. You're telling me to tell them that Castro was a dictator who kept the trains running on time.
All these are facts, so, sure, I'll tell them. In fact, they've told me this. They'll tell you this. I've lived in Cuba and South Florida. I've had these conversations countless times.
Your point is, exactly?
And you tell me this, genius: How would acknowledging the hypocrisy of U.S. foreign policy damage Cuban-Americans in any way? How would telling the truth about why the U.S. gov't actually was against Castro (which had nothing to do with his dictatorship; lots of dictatorships around the world) hurt their feelings?
Do you really think that people who've had their property confiscated and who've been kicked out of their country are offended when people present them with differing or additional POVs? They're a little tougher than that, as are the Cubans who actually live in Cuba.
whataclown wrote:
Pocine memories wrote:Remember that time the greatest army in the world of the most powerful nation attempted to take over Cuba?
I don't remember that time because it didn't happen. Have you ever read a history book, or do you just talk out of your rear end? But don't let actual facts get in the way of your story.
Sure, maybe you should read a Cuban history book instead of a revisionist US one. You probably think you also won Vietnam and Somalia.
Go away, you pinko wrote:
Murder Dubs wrote:Meanwhile, DJ Trump only wants alliances with peace-loving, democratically supported leaders like Vladimir Putin and Assad... OK, buddy. Keep eating up the propaganda.
US News Media: Assad good, Fidel bad... Got it...
Having actually spent extensive time in Cuba, I know that Castro was a Putin-style dictator, but also that day to day life in Cuba is a good deal better than in the other large Caribbean countries like Jamaica, Haiti, etc.
Shut up, you libtaaaard loving socialist!!
I'm not a socialist. And I think you're trolling :) But, look, man, you try sitting through a 3-hour sermon in Kingston, Jamaica or Belize City in the dead of August with no damn AC and then go to Havana and do the same in some temperature-controlled gov't building and tell me which one you prefer.
Go walk for two hours in 100 degree heat and 100% humidity in JA because there's no reliable bus service and then take that same ride in Cuba with a reliable public transit system and tell me you wouldn't rather be in Cuba. Duck a few gunshots in Port of Spain and then go to Cuba where violent crime is pretty much non-existent with your elderly mom and tell me which is better.
I'm not condoning Castro's human rights abuses, but if you seriously think that being a Cuban is more dangerous in terms of violence or exposure of poor health than being a Mexican or a Belizean or a Jamaican or a Trinidadian, I've got a Nigerian dude with a cousin who's a prince who really wants you to read an email...
Murder Dubs wrote:
Go away, you pinko wrote:Tell that to the Cubans who were imprisoned, murdered and whose properties & businesses were confiscated by the Castro Regime. Fuk you.
This isn't a response to what I wrote. You are literally telling me to tell dispossessed Cuban-Americans that the American gov't has supported numerous dictators in Latin America around the world. You are telling me to tell them that at the same time they were doing this, they placed an embargo against Cuba and tried to kill Castro. You are telling me to tell them that Castro instituted a literacy campaign, universal health care and a pretty good education system. You're telling me to tell them that Castro was a dictator who kept the trains running on time.
All these are facts, so, sure, I'll tell them. In fact, they've told me this. They'll tell you this. I've lived in Cuba and South Florida. I've had these conversations countless times.
Your point is, exactly?
You are just a another propaganda believing libtaaaard.
ALL celebration, NO mourning for this oxygen thief who took over land, riches, families, memories by force, torture and imprisonment. Injustice and oppression will be his memory.
Some facts for you to ponder:
â—He turned Cuba into a colony of the Soviet Union and nearly caused a nuclear holocaust.
â—He sponsored terrorism wherever he could and allied himself with many of the worst dictators on earth.
â—He was responsible for so many thousands of executions and disappearances in Cuba that a precise number is hard to reckon.
â—He brooked no dissent and built concentration camps and prisons at an unprecedented rate, filling them to capacity, incarcerating a higher percentage of his own people than most other modern dictators, including Stalin.
â—He condoned and encouraged torture and extrajudicial killings.
â—He forced nearly 20 percent of his people into exile, and prompted thousands to meet their deaths at sea, unseen and uncounted, while fleeing from him in crude vessels.
â—He claimed all property for himself and his henchmen, strangled food production and impoverished the vast majority of his people.
â—He outlawed private enterprise and labor unions, wiped out Cuba’s large middle class and turned Cubans into slaves of the state.
â—He persecuted gay people and tried to eradicate religion.
â—He censored all means of expression and communication.
â—He established a fraudulent school system that provided indoctrination rather than education, and created a two-tier health-care system, with inferior medical care for the majority of Cubans and superior care for himself and his oligarchy, and then claimed that all his repressive measures were absolutely necessary to ensure the survival of these two ostensibly “free†social welfare projects.
â—He turned Cuba into a labyrinth of ruins and established an apartheid society in which millions of foreign visitors enjoyed rights and privileges forbidden to his people.
â—He never apologized for any of his crimes and never stood trial for them.
