The unofficial masters recovery thread

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

OK, where do I begin. I started running competively in 1965 and have one so on a regular basis since. I could run every day until my late fifties. At 66 four days of running works well with two quality days (tempo/intervals/repetitions). The other days I walk or rest. I believe in quality over sheer volume.

Igy

I was talking to my sister yesterday. She says she only run about 4 times a week and does water work, aerobics and walking the other days. She's 60 and she's just run a 6:05 mile and a 21:15 5k on consecutive days, both around 94% age graded, I think.

61 years old, skin cancer is a concern. Lots of sunscreen and wear a hat etc. As we get older we do not absorb vitamin D3 as well. One thing that helped me was taking vitamin d3 supplements. I was tested and had a vitamin d3 score of 22 (don't know the units). I was told by my endocrinologist to take 2000 IU's a day. She tested me again 60 days later and I came in with a score of 34. She upped the dosage to 4000 IU's a day. 60 days later I came in at 51. What I have noticed from this is a consistently lower resting heart rate (I take mine first thing in the morning), fewer colds, lift better, and run hills better. Vitamin d3 seems to affect the fast twitch muscle fibers. No, I don't take whatever the latest testosterone nonsense is and I may start racing again if the mood strikes.

At age 45, I am not qualified to give advice on this topic.

However, I do have an observation: when I worked with horses, we NEVER let them go from a hard effort to a complete standstill. We always downshifted gradually. I.e. if you are galloping hard, you slow to a canter, then eventually to a trot, and then to a walk, and keep walking . It was understood that this was much easier on them and extended their careers.

I do something similar with myself - I don't stop right after the last rep of a hard workout or the end of a tempo and stand, with hands on knees. Instead, I just downshift from the fast running immediately into a slow jog. I jog for 2-5 minutes, and then down to a walk. And then I'll stand.

Doing this does seem to help some with my recovery, and I'm hopeful it will also extend my own career.

Cavorty wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

OK, where do I begin. I started running competively in 1965 and have one so on a regular basis since. I could run every day until my late fifties. At 66 four days of running works well with two quality days (tempo/intervals/repetitions). The other days I walk or rest. I believe in quality over sheer volume.

Igy

I was talking to my sister yesterday. She says she only run about 4 times a week and does water work, aerobics and walking the other days. She's 60 and she's just run a 6:05 mile and a 21:15 5k on consecutive days, both around 94% age graded, I think.

Good times for sure.

Common sense would say the older you get forces one to compromise more often to non-weight bearing, supplemental exercises, and rest. Traditional training regimes support athletic response in the general population, and if the older athlete can get away with it, so much the better. Last week I hit a bit of a plateau in training, and backed off for most of the week. Monday and Wednesday of this week I had my best sessions on 2020. If patience is a virtue, for the masters track athlete it is a necessity.

52, life long runner. I train very conventionally, the biggest difference between now and when I was younger is that my easy days are just very very very slow. If anyone saw me jogging around they would never think I'd run more that a few months.

The two biggest factors that will affect you as you age are weight and injury history. Anything you can do to keep the weight down in a benefit, diet, lifting, cross training, diet, diet, diet... The injury history has a compound affect because it can cause you to put on weight, it can cause you to modify your stride and form which can lead to......... another injury.

I believe all the "pre-hab" stuff is extremely important for older athletes. I get regular massages, and I do what I can to use all the modalities available foam rollers, stem, etc.

to "the idiot", read your post with interest. If i may ask a few questions, have you worked on strength training? Sounds like you would benefit from lifting and core work. Also, for feet issues, you might try the Nike Zoom Fly shoes or Hoka Clifton 6, which are super cushiony and seem to aid in recovery, making al the difference in the world for me.

As for racing, cut it out at your own peril. I know, it sucks, but there is nothing like it to supercharge your overall conditioning. Don't worry about how you will do, just be assured you will be a better runner for having done it. If what you are doing is enough for you, then fine. If not, invest in your training and you may not go down like the Dow (thread reference).

one more thing, I totally agree with EZ10Miler, weight is major. Carrying around extra weight is never going to feel good and will tax everything more than necessary. I happen to think that building lean muscle mass is almost mandatory to keeping light as we age, since running alone just doesn't seem to burn enough calories, and muscle is very effective at burning fat and calories in general long after the workouts are over, unlike just doing cardio alone.

Mentioned very little here, and maybe because it's obvious, but...sleep. For me personally, it starts with this. For the past several years (45-50) I "managed on 6-6.5 hrs of sleep per night. Now I shoot for 7+ during the week, more on weekends, including naps of 30-60' on Sat/Sun.

Nutrition would be my second biggest factor, both through improvement and slight caloric decrease.

Slowing recovery runs is probably my third factor.

This is a good thread, hope it will continue. A lot of talk already about remaining lean/light bodyweight and nutrition accompanied with it but if you are training relatively hard and an injury or some soreness pops up you might think about a slight calorie increase as well.

Nothing else new really. Run on soft surfaces, treadmills, swim a lot, lift weights

Wrinkles on the outside, wrinkles on the inside. Adjust, adapt to the changes, or be sitting on the sidelines.

Started running at age 50. 62 yrs old now. Whats worked for me:

-Doing almost all of my running on softer surfaces (I can't emphasize the importance of this enough)

-I run in racing flats;

-I run everyday, but by feel, not pace;

-I run once a day only, in the a.m. and always in a fasted state

-I have a weird diet: mostly vegetarian w/lots of fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, quinoa, etc. but I also have sweet tooth and will occasionally binge on junk food

-Don't stretch, but I use a roller

-No meds, not even aspirin (but have experimented w/DMSO)

-Stopped doing intervals/track workouts a few years ago, but still do hill repeats and the odd fartlek

I'm the OP. It's great to see this thread still generating quality posts. A few weeks ago, there was a thread debating the benefits of beet juice.

After reading some of the scholarly articles, I decided to give beet juice a try. After three weeks of running the same interval workout with and without beet juice... (drum roll)... I saw no benefit in performance, perceived effort, or recovery. So, it looks like beet juice is not a magical solution, at least not for me.

However, the articles I reviewed indicated that some people were responders and others were non-responders to beet juice.

They’re good on a salad, especially marinated, with oil and vinegar dressing.

I've been on the road all week and haven't had time to check this thread out. But here's what I have done--with some success

--over the past few years.

One day off every 10-14 days, and in a 14 day micro-cycle I'll have 4 recovery days (including the day off). Usually, I like Monday and Friday as recovery days, but will go by feel. So if I'm feeling rotten on a Wednesday I'll run really.

60+, when healthy run 55-65 miles a week (more for marathon training but only do those every once or twice every 2 or 3 years), and recovery runs are 40-55 minutes and 20/30 seconds slower than a normal pace.

I'm the OP. I'm bumping this old thread to see if anyone has any ideas that haven't been covered so far. After a rough couple of years... bladder cancer, prostate surgery, hernia surgery, Omicron, glute medius insertional tendon partial tear... ah, well, you get the idea. Anyway, I'm trying to get back to high level training and the big limiting factor is the ability to recover quickly enough to do another high level workout every other day.

It seems we obsess over mileage and heart rate and pace, but we just take recovery for granted. I have the motivation to get to the track or trail, but I just don't have the same dedication for recovery. I'm sure I'm not optimizing my down time when I'm not running, but I'm hoping that there are 2-3 things I could be doing that I'm not doing now that would speed recovery.

It seems we obsess over mileage and heart rate and pace, but we just take recovery for granted.

Thoughts?

I am 42. I got lazy after my marathon in May. Then I got sick. Getting sick was really good for me cos it forced me to stop exercising for almost two weeks. A nagging toe issue virtually disappeared and my joints and muscles feel nice and fresh now. I'm realizing that us older folk sometimes need breaks and it will overall help more than it hurts. I didn't lose nearly as much vo2max as I thought I would either.

As you get older recovery takes longer, and I don't think there is much that can be done about it. There is no magic solution.

My thoughts are:

1. More sleep.
2. Race less frequently.
3. Post race needs a full week of recovery (easy running only)
4. Only one hard workout per week Say, VO2max one week, tempo the next week.
2. Hydration and fueling are important. Beer no longer works.
3. Deep tissue massage works for me at finding niggles before they develop.

I would be interested in views on weight training?

I'm 56 and was able to, more or less, maintain until 50. High mileage for more than 20 years, lots of racing (not very talented but had some decent times over the years), quality workouts, race times maintaining within reason. Then at 50, fragility, especially at pace, started to set in aggressively. Start a training cycle, build mileage, start quality workouts, and a little cramp, say in calf, strikes. Would have been nothing just a couple years before, and now it would stay sore and raw and sideline me for a couple weeks at a time. Frustration, over and over.

Gave up serious training around age 53 and paid attention to cycling, rowing, ski-erging, gained weight. Would keep toes in water by running little bits but the weight stayed on, which of course made running sluggish and unsatisfying. Starting during the pandemic, decided to train more again, just base miles, no speed, but was now heavier and painfully slow, but at least I could get up to 50-60 slow miles a week. I just trudged along the last couple years, tried some trail work, decided to just be slow, doughy old man. Sh-t.

About 10 months ago it dawned on me that I needed to find a way to lose at least 10-15 pounds. Before age 50, running lots of miles meant I could eat pretty much whatever I wanted. Now, I cannot run as fast or as much volume, and I have old man metabolism, and weight stays on no matter what my running looks like. So, I had to really pay attention to what and how I ate. Sucks. Running lots of miles doesn't do it anymore, so I have found that I must eat like a mouse before stubborn pounds actually start to disappear.

I have lost 10+ pounds of older man blubber and have found that my training paces and ability to train have gotten much better. I need to drop another 5 pounds which is proving very difficult but its coming; trying to stop eating by 6P or so and being careful about portion sizes. I'm in a training cycle trying to get ready for a Fall marathon, so far so good. But, I have come to grips that I'm at least 20 minutes slower in the marathon than just six years ago.

Still, if I can train effectively, with some long runs and a little quality work, and do a little racing, I'm happy.

No stretching. Liberal use of electrolytes and gels on the run. Been trying some Pebax-plus-plate shoes to gain some seconds per mile. Trying small dose magnesium for muscle tightness and brittleness. At least 8 hours of sleep per night. Honestly, the most important thing for me has been dropping weight and not pushing paces like I used to.

Have you researched DHEA? 61 yr old former competitive runner. Haven't raced in years & barely can run 1 or 2 days week - 3 to 4 miles a pop (due to chronic injuries & post-traumatic OA from 25+ yrs of running). However, I currently work out 7 days a week with an emphasis on heavy weight training & HIIT workouts on the spin bike.

I was experiencing big problems with recovery after hard workouts. Also, problems with energy levels, increasing lean muscle mass & reducing BF - despite eating a 100% organic whole foods diet & taking plenty of D3. I had my T levels checked last year which were 564 ng/dl - doc said those were good for my age & well within the range used by this particular health care provider. However, that number was about half of my T levels when I had them checked way back in the early 1990's. I wasn't interested in pursuing TRT with any low-T centers at this time.. Came upon this study with DHEA & decided to try it (and DHEA is an inexpensive dietary supplement sold just about everywhere).

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of acute DHEA administration on free testosterone in middle-aged and young men following high-intensity interval training - PubMed

With advancing age, plasma testosterone levels decline, with free testosterone levels declining more significantly than total testosterone. This fall is thought to underlie the development of physical and mental weakness that...

Link:pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23417481/

I just used 25 mgs & noticed a big difference in recovery & how I felt the next day. In fact, I started daily use of 25 mgs & noticed after a few weeks an increase in muscle mass, loss of BF, increase in strength on all my excercises & a big improvement in energy (this was impressive since I can't sleep more than 5-6 hrs a night because of back pain).

Here's another study on DHEA involving a 65-78 yr old M/F elderly cohort:

journals.physiology.org

DHEA enhances effects of weight training on muscle mass and strength in elderly women and men | American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism

The plasma levels of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulfated form (DHEAS) decline ∼80% between the ages of 25 and 75 yr. Muscle mass and strength also decrease with aging. Published data on the effects of DHEA replacem...

Link:journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.11...

Both the DHEA & placebo group engaged in regular, supervised strength training for several months. Both groups improved in lean muscle mass & strength increases but the DHEA group performed significantly better than the placebo group. The researchers concluded that the pathways were an increase in IGF-1 and not testosterone, as T levels were not raised with the men in the study.

One of the leading authorities on DHEA supplementation & aging is Dennis Villareal, Professor of Medicine - Endocrinology, Diabetes & Metabolism - Baylor College of Medicine. He's co-authored several papers on DHEA supplementation & elderly subjects. You might want to take a look at some of his research.