The unofficial masters recovery thread

Alright, I'll start. Injured right now. Really listening to body after race or speed work it key. So, for example, if I am really sore or have slight pull, then it's a day off, or a walk, or transition to the bike in decent weather.

In the old days track/speed work was on T/T and you went even if you had a twinge somewhere. Now, I say f*ck it and wait until I feel 100%. What's a few extra days?

Of course, sleep, hydration and good food is a given.

Age 57. Started training again with some consistency about 14 months ago. But only two days a week. Added some bicycling in the spring, and bumped up to three days of running during the summer.

The four rest days each week allowed me to manage through constant low-grade injuries -- tender knees, sore hip, etc. I included long runs of 15 to 23 miles, which left general muscle soreness, but with four rest days, not debilitating.

Most runs during this period were high quality. Usually progression runs with final miles at LT pace. Long runs at marathon pace or faster. Again, those total rest days I think made that possible.

After a few weeks recovery following a marathon in October (3:25), I am now experimenting with reducing the number of rest days to just two a week. So far (third week now), I notice the nagging little injuries are more persistent, and the "tempo" runs don't seem to be happening. Hopefully my body will adapt to the added workload without breaking down completely.

Perhaps not a good idea at this point, but I have also added vo2max intervals each week, so that's another variable. I think ice baths, massage, core strength work, etc. would go go a long way towards reducing recovery time, but I've never been that motivated.

Slow down on your easy days and long runs. Keep the quality days (tempos, intervals) as high quality as possible, but consider spacing them out more. What you used to do in a week, do in two.

Taking days off, but running too fast on your aerobic runs, the injuries will lessen in severity, but not go away. By slowing way down on those runs, I am now completely niggle-free for the first time in my running career. If I can stay healthy, I am happy, and will be more competitive than by staggering from one injury and insult to another.

Slow the F Down.

The balancing act is much more delicate. For instance, if I have been slacking on strides or hill sprints, when I put them back in it will be in low dose and I have might have to be willing to space something quality out a little farther and pull it all back together. If I slide on long run, I don't jump straight up 5 miles like I could have when younger without consideration for fatigue that is going to come of it. Basically, don't do fatigue, or force any pace when the legs, or hips now, don't want to play. Yeah, I walk sometimes, 2 miles walking equals 1 jogging for my mile tally and a long hard hilly hike can count for a little more. Naps when I am tired, can really boost an evening run from a potential slog to a decent run.

convince a doc to put you on TRT

I'm only in my late 40s but I'm interested and have had some success.

I do a lot of weight work - I think we simply have to have stronger muscles, so they don't break down as easily. Hamstrings, Quads, calves, upper body. It'll make you faster and help recovery. Anecdotal, but I haven't been hurt for years and years.

I certainly eat a lot of protein - I think that helps but that's guesswork.

If I race 5k-10k I'lll take a day off after. If longer race, I'll take 3 days off.

I run around 45 mpw, with two workouts each week.

...and no marathons. Those things are killers.

I took an 18 month sabbatical from mid-distance to focus on the 400m and I'm just recently returned to mid-distance training. I'm taking my miles up from ~9/week to 20-25. I'm making my easy runs at the very bottom of my HR aerobic zone. Previously, I wouldn't have run at all on those days. I'm curious to see if I can recover while upping my mileage.

Age 58. What works for me is doing nearly all my running on local trails, hill repeats instead of speed work, training in racing flats such as NB 1400's and Asics Hyperdpeeds, eating a mostly vegetarian diet high in complex carbs, and getting plenty of sleep.

lipstick on a pig wrote:

Age 58. What works for me is doing nearly all my running on local trails, hill repeats instead of speed work, training in racing flats such as NB 1400's and Asics Hyperdpeeds, eating a mostly vegetarian diet high in complex carbs, and getting plenty of sleep.

One more thing: I don't take anything for running-induced inflammation; I just let it run it's course.

As veteran runners, we know how to train and we can still do the workouts, but recovery is another matter.

well, not to be a donky boy, but I would argue that maybe we don't know how to train because recovery is part of the training process - not some separate entity.

I am finding all of the stereotypes of what is supposed to happen to you as you age untrue. Now I might just be an outlier here but I think I am on to something. I do not follow most of the conventional wisdom in our sport. For example, I do all of my training in racing shoes and have done so since 1989 when they first starting turning training shoes into clogs - not because I was trying to set a trend or write a book, but because the new bulky shoes made my thighs hurt and kept me from running the way I wanted (without motion control).

here are my 3 biggest tips: again there is nothing super suprising here, but this is it - if you want to know my secret:

1) eat right

2) sleep

3) train - according to how YOU feel, not according to how your 20 yr old body should feel or how someone else tells you to.

few other things I do and don't that I forget may make me different:

- I also don't take any anti-inflammatories (ever)

- or any thing (no aspirin etc (ever)

- I don't drink coffee (or any caffeinated drinks) did pop for some yrs but stopped that about 10 yrs ago

- obviously no PEDS

- don;'t do ice baths, but not necessarily vs them...just not something I do

- do all my running in racing shoes since 1989

- I do roll

- I do stretch

- I do lift (but not real heavy) almost daily

- I do some speed work mostly in winter training phase

- I do big volume workouts: longest tempo ever 16 miles just last week

- I wear spikes in track workouts (this summer for as much as 10 miles doing one mile fast - one mile recovery pace X 5)

my training is also probably different that what most 50+ yr old do

I sometime train with my team of college runners and forget that I am over 50.

honestly I train more on my own now because most of them are mid-distance guys and they run much less than me.

I break all the rules of recovery, how long your long run should be relative to your weekly mileage, how much you should increase your weekly mileage etc because 1) I don't believe 2) it is often based on junk science...for example the study that says only increase your mileage by x% or you'll get injujied was done on rugby players and wasn't even a measure of how many miles they were running. 3) I go my own experience/brain - it tells me when I have done too much. according to the rugby study if you increase your training by 100% you ave a 100% change of getting injured. well I went from 70 to 140 miles in 1 week and did not get injured.

I have been running a 24 mile run once a week for the last 8 weeks and recover fine from it...also doing another 20 miler in that week. Is that wise - I don't care what others say - it works for me and I can recover fine from it and still do other workouts during the week.

60 just took several years off with zero running also am 25 pounds overweight but man I feel GREAT. No aches no pains all I have been doing is hiking 4 or 5 days a week for 45 minutes up and down my little hill . The extra weight sucks and is coming off with getting back on a low carb diet. But here is the deal I am pretty sure that hiking down steep hills builds concentric muscle strength which prevents injuries. So a few weeks ago I decide to run a 2 mile wood chip loop that has a few hills. I run15:42. Which is ok but I had zero DOMS which leads me to believe that concentric strength is the key to running well as we age. Also I believe that recovery workouts should be below 60 percent of max HR using the Karvonen formula. So I am going to ramp up and do longer hikes as well as hard workouts. The hard workouts will be HARD but followed by as much easy days of hiking as needed. That means I feel 100 percent rested before hammering another workout. I think that most runners mistakenly believe that if they take too many rest days between the hard stuff they lose fitness and this might be true to some extent but it beats being INJURED. Also the body tends to adapt to the patterns of stress you put on it. The body will maintain fitness longer if you space out your hard workouts. Sounds crazy but I am pretty sure about this.

Not 55...44 this year. Pb of 3:58 almost 20 years ago (gulp). GREAT advice on waiting on a track session or hard run if you feel a tweek or twinge. We've all made the wrong decision far too many times. I have also switched to doing 1-2 easy runs during the week on an AlterG treadmill at 75% body weight as opposed to outside. I feel that this has cut my time out from injuries drastically. Most larger cities in The States (where I now live) have them available in some form or fashion:

http://www.alterg.com/product/find-an-alterg/

What ointments do you guys use to aid in recovery?

I use arnica gel - both on joints and muscles.

Corsair wrote:

What ointments do you guys use to aid in recovery?

I use arnica gel - both on joints and muscles.

I use Thermaflex liniment gel. It's for horses, but it was recommended to me about 15 years ago by a runner who said lots of horse owners used it themselves and he had used it with a lot of success. It comes in a liniment and a gel. The gel you can apply with your hands. The liniment is the consistency of alcohol and is easiest to apply with a cotton ball or paper towel.

It's pretty amazing stuff, but it's strong, so you just paint it on... you don't rub it in.

Massage is the most useful thing I've found. I usually get worked over every 7-10 days.

At 53 .....speedwork mostly on grass, dirt. Maybe a couple of track workouts once I've done multiple sessions on grass or dirt. Most mileage on trails or crushed stone. Usually one speed session per week and one long run. Races are mainly xc or trails. Sleep and eat well. If I'm tired or sore I run easy. Miles other than speed sessions are easy. (tempo mixed in with every other long run)

agip wrote:

...and no marathons. Those things are killers.

You mad bro?