Pulled top runner from the race today after one mile today....need help diagnosing...

Good luck to your special runner. Keep buying him by pulling him from a race to avoid a poor finish and he'll never learn to fight through a bad day. Look for your runner to fade in adversity if you keep that up. You are not helping him that way

This.

Your kid has had this "problem" for a year without any diagnosed illness or deficiency. Stop looking for a physical malady or mental one. High school kids grow they do not always get faster, odds are your kid has added height and weight and now has a different body dynamic and simply can't perform like he used to at this time in his life.

Back the training down to 25 miles or less a week. Overtraining is your enemy. Have him take it out in 6:00 then drop the hammer the last 800. Don't take the kid out if he is not injured. You can take the kid out of the race but you'll take the race out of the kid. Seriously stop making yourself and this kid feel like a failure if he doesn't hit his old times this year or ever again. Are you trying to create Alan Webb mindset???? Tel him to do his best and help the team

Good luck.

For girls maybe, but how many high school boys get slower after their body develops? Extremely rare for that to happen.

I don't think it's a mental issue. If he was running 20-30sec slower than he should be, then maybe. However, it sounds like he's running almost a minute slower. There has to be a physical component to this issue.

Sure there is a physical component - his body has changed and he may be more of a sprinter than a distance guy now.

Let the doctor check the guy out and run all the tests in the world - otherwise no good coach is going to use let'srun speculation diagnosis by people who play doctors on let'srun.

Either :

A-there is a medical problem - I doubt it or it would show up elsewhere and he would struggle in the training not just race

B- the kid is growing and not into a distance runner ideal body - not a bad thing

C- he is a mental case - I doubt it

D- your presumptions about sleep and diet are wrong (he is self reporting and is wrong) - maybe he is gaming 2 hours a night of his 8 sleep hours and only getting 6 hours etc

E-he was an early bloomer and the bloom is off the rose

Good luck

Make the kid finish races - it is high school for crying out loud

He's running slower because you're prescribing him less mileage. His body adapted to the 65mpw over summer the previous summers. You give him a lower stimulus. The body goes backwards as it's not under enough stress to develop aerobically. Stop cutting his mileage every time he feels a bit tired, a key part of training is getting through humps when your body is saying no all training session long. Often times the week after a sh!t month or so block of training is where the PB unexpectedly arrives. Tell him to take his runs easier for a few weeks but bump the mileage up gradually. Get him to run with a HR monitor if possible to make sure he's not overreaching (and do a proper max heart rate test and set your zones manually, not using a cookie cutter program that prescribes exactt BPM). I like to have my athletes disable the auto lap function on their watch, and just run exclusively on the heart rate screen, so they have no idea about pace and are just focusing purely on how hard the body is working.

Thanks again, guys.

Remember, these issues started BEFORE we pulled him from this one race.

Again, we only pulled him out of one race.

Have you checked for lyme? Is that common in your area?

Runningisbadforyou wrote:

5. Mono? Maybe, but he's had blood tests and this started well over a year ago.

As far as his description, he usually says he's completely spent when he hits the wall like that..he has mentioned a few times that his legs "feel heavy" or like "there's no speed in them."

Typical blood work doesn't include testing for mono/EBV. Ask him to get a mono test. Mono/Epstein Barr Virus doesn't affect everyone the same way. I've had EBV for maybe 30 years and only had it diagnosed about 5 years ago. About 2-3 times a year, my running performance would go in the tank for 2-3 weeks no matter what I tried. Sometimes, I couldn't even finish the workout.

I started taking Lauricidin after my doctor told me there was no cure for EBV. It seems to help. I haven't had an EBV bout in about three years.

1) Don't beat yourself up over this. I understand caring about a kid I coach. I also understand I often don't have the answer.

2) Tricky medical issues, if solved, are most often solved by a doctor who has seen the issue before and sometimes one who is a good medical detective. Alternative opinions are sometimes valuable.

3) Life issues are more important than sports careers. Prepare all your athletes to understand this.

Good luck for both your runner and you.

Runningisbadforyou wrote:

Thanks again, guys.

Remember, these issues started BEFORE we pulled him from this one race.

Again, we only pulled him out of one race.

Runningisbadforyou wrote:

Thanks again, guys.

Remember, these issues started BEFORE we pulled him from this one race.

Again, we only pulled him out of one race.

What did you tell him when you pulled him? It only takes 1 incident to break confidence. Not being critical of you, just honestly want to know how you handled this from a learning standpoint

Haveuthought wrote:

CHECK FOR CELIAC DISEASE as well as ferritin.

This. Definitely check. Could explain sudden deterioration. Can cause gait changes, stiffness/muscle tightness in addition to malnutrition.

Have his blood sugar tested. Some people get a late on-site Type 1 diabetes.

Also, check his thyroid to make sure he is in the normal range. My brother was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at 16 after having issues running and was found to have thyroid issues 2 years later after having similar issues.

It may not be either of these, but at least you can check it off as a possible cause.

Have you tried forcing him to negative split his races. While 2:35 isn't on pace to break 16, it is near what you think is his current all out effort race pace, maybe have him start at 17:30 pace, and speed up a tad each 800. Picking off runners gets your confidence back.

More daily calories.

Sorry to read about the frustrations you and your runner are going through. I understand how difficult it is to watch someone you've worked closely with struggle, especially when you're trying hard to help and nothing seems to be working.

You've received a lot of helpful information from the responses I've read thus far. It's overwhelming to try and look into all of them, but it sounds like many of them can be done all at once with a full blood workup, including the possibility of mono.

It sounds like you've had him take plenty of time off. Having felt similarly to this guy in the past, here's what finally got me to break through (keep in mind, this took a few months...so this would be something more likely to put him in a good place for the upcoming track season. Also keep in mind this list is not comprehensive, but hopefully a good start):

1. Have him track his calories for a week or two. Eating more than his family doesn't mean much. I've often found that my runners think they're eating enough when they really aren't. There are formulas you can find for athletes (don't use your phone apps - they don't recommend enough!) to calculate how many calories per day a distance runner/competitive athlete needs. It's highly likely that he needs to eat more. Also have him look at his consistency throughout the day. If he's eating breakfast at 6am, then nothing again until 11am, that's far from ideal.

2. Ferritin levels for distance runners should be 40 minimum (this number is based on a lot of research many years ago that I didn't save the links for, but now wish I had...). Most doctors will tell you you're "normal" even when they know you're a runner. Unfortunately many doctors don't realize how important this is and how different "normal" is for competitive athletes vs the regular Joe or even the recreational Joe. If he needs to be doing so, taking iron supplements CONSISTENTLY can't be overstated. This is not something one does for a few weeks or a couple of months until levels are good and then stops. You build up the stores in your body and then must maintain them. If you stop taking iron, the stores will likely get depleted and then you're right back where you started. It tends to take a minimum of 4 weeks to start building stores. Only then can you start actually increasing your levels. Liquid iron tastes terrible, but is easiest for the body to absorb.

3. Don't keep reducing mileage. I think someone else commented to this point as well. Keep the mileage somewhere in the 10-15mpw range LESS than what his usual top mileage is (ex. If top mileage is 65, have him run 50-55 consistently. If top mileage is 45, probably best to be at 35 consistently, but not lower.). That should allow him to get in enough mileage and be consistent with it without overdoing it. The miles will likely feel like crap and be much slower than he's used to (these should mostly be easy runs, no real workouts which will be annoying, but worth it long term). After several weeks of doing this, though, he'll build up a base without overdoing it and start to get his legs back under him. This can take a minimum of 6-8 weeks. During this time, it will be important to focus on the long-term goal of feeling good, getting stronger, and being able to get back to regular training. It's going to be a true test of his mentality and he needs to know this up front so he can be prepared and continually work on that important piece.

4. Have him do some heavier weight lifting - squats, clean, dead lifts. Weight lifting helps increase testosterone levels as well as straight up making one stronger. Strength will be a big help during this process.

I hope this is helpful to you and your athlete. I hope you're able to work together to figure out what's going on. Again, it's likely going to be a long-term process, which is going to take more mental strength than physical strength. Good luck!

I suspect it's nutrition-related (under-eating).

Maybe also check a EBV in addition to the mono testing. Could consider West Nile as well

On the potential iron issues: find a doctor that has some experience with runners. Seriously.

Do not go to a doctor that thinks everything is ok if you don't have full blown anemia. That is absolutely false.

Also, "normal" or "everything's fine" is not an acceptable answer from the doctor about any blood test results. Get a paper copy of all the results and take it with you when you leave the office (or get them sent by email, but get the actual numbers). Keep the results. Start a file.

As someone who has celiac and has suffered through many years of iron issues, I can tell you there's a huge range of responses that you will get from doctors regarding acceptable ferritin levels. The real answer is not a number, it's how you feel. For reference, my running suffers when my ferritin gets much below 60 (the very first time I got tested it was 0.9), but I have friends who do pretty well in the 30s.

You want to feel like a million bucks? Get your ferritin up in the 120+ range. It's crazy how much difference it makes.

Psychosomatic.