Importance of basic speed in distance running

I totally agree.

What? 11:67-12:04s 100m for Mo? He could barely touch 12s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28

He could run 11-high, but this was with a flying start, not from block.

On a side note, Alistair Brownlee ran 14s for 100m, and his p.b of 10000m is 28:32. 13s for 100m is plenty of speed for distance runners.

If you've ever had a good coach, you've done basic speed work throughout all seasons.

Your speculation about elite speed is flawed. Farah can certainly run 48 or faster for 400m.

One problem is that these types of spring training are not considered sexy by the masses. You may only run 300m over the course of 40 minutes doing some of these workouts because the rest is so long, so anxious runners would rather do mile repeats with short rest and call it "speed work."

The conditions of that 100m seemed rather unoptimal... And as I said have to remember that distance runners suck at starting from the blocks. Farah clearly struggled to get anything out of his body. A 100m in good conditions, after a thorough warm up (which is needed to distance runner if wanting to get the muscles function properly) and he would have been faster.

I ran 12.38 in +0.4m wind and couple of hours after a 53,78 400m. And I did suck too starting from the blocks. But after all Farah clearly has a quite decent basic speed when he is "warmed up", from the bell to the finish line.

............lol wrote:

On a side note, Alistair Brownlee ran 14s for 100m, and his p.b of 10000m is 28:32. 13s for 100m is plenty of speed for distance runners.

Like I said there are exceptions, the diesel-types. Besides, a 13s 100m speed from the blocks really ain´t that easy, especially without the basic speed work..

Thank you for a well articulated point. I completely agree.

I coach a middle school cross country team - very introductory, lots of kids doing this for the first time, with no background other than soccer, etc.

Your point about emphasising speed in the youth, caught my attention. How would you approach general training for a group of youngsters? (11-13 year olds). I have noticed they like sprints, we do plenty of those, and I'm also trying to teach them to build the engine, run continually for 25-30 mins. etc

I look forward to your thoughts (or anyone else who cares to chime in).

Thank you.

Youth Coach wrote:

Thank you for a well articulated point. I completely agree.

I coach a middle school cross country team - very introductory, lots of kids doing this for the first time, with no background other than soccer, etc.

Your point about emphasising speed in the youth, caught my attention. How would you approach general training for a group of youngsters? (11-13 year olds). I have noticed they like sprints, we do plenty of those, and I'm also trying to teach them to build the engine, run continually for 25-30 mins. etc

I look forward to your thoughts (or anyone else who cares to chime in).

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Yes, I think that the speed development in the youth is very important, and for youngsters that age the emphasis of the "training" should be in the speed-skill development with lots of overall exercise, trying different events and even different sports like soccer, cross-country skiing etc, if possible. Short easy runs ending to short sprint finish, fartlek-type runs, drills, short sprints, jumps (long jump, high jump, triple jump, hurdles, javelin, etc...). The sprints could also be included inside general circuits (body weight). For example, kids lying on the floor, and from the sound of a whistle aiming to touch a wall as fast as possible. Circuits could include the strength training, plyometrics (box/bench jumps, hurdle drills, sprints), dynamic flexibility and cardiovascular training all in one single training session. These circuits should be sweaty and challenging enough but still fun. Don´t afraid to make the kids do the plyometrics.

The sprints overall should be SHORT, alactic. No high lactates, other than just couple of harder endurance workouts near the season. In season the races are the only hard lactic "workouts" needed in my opinion.

So in summary, in the youth I would suggest lower "logged" running volume but lots of overall exercise, and the body gets strong, skilled and fast with a good endurance base created almost by itself. After this base it´s safe and easy to start the more serious endurance training in the future. This was almost exactly what I did and never had an injury other than in my hamstring thanks to too much training, too little rest. Even though I was only a hobbyjogger when comparing to real runners, I don´t think that it´s that different.

Part of it likely stems from the training conditions some may have to endure for a large part of the year.

If you are wearing three layers of clothing in midwinter and trying to sprint with long recoveries you'll likely run into some difficulty.

People just want to keep moving when it's brutal out.

Any recommendations for speed workouts? I was a fat kid growing up and just got into the running game... I hate that my basic speed is so low (probably can't break 16 for 100 m) and want to improve.

To your basic premise (Raw speed is important and often overlooked in too many programs or LRC posters suggestions, and that there are plenty of coaches and LRC posters out there that confuse speed work - meaning workouts that improve raw speed - and "speed work" - almost any kind of anaerobic workout), I absolutely agree.

Inuit Runner wrote:

Part of it likely stems from the training conditions some may have to endure for a large part of the year.

If you are wearing three layers of clothing in midwinter and trying to sprint with long recoveries you'll likely run into some difficulty.

People just want to keep moving when it's brutal out.

I´m from Finland, wearing only winter running tights (and boxers..). Sprints done in snowy roads, it takes away some force from the push off. Jogging or walking is of course recommended between sprints in cold weather to stay warm. If you use weather as an excuse and neglect the speed work, you´ll likely run into some difficulty when the summer arrives and you (possibly) suddenly start doing it.

I´m not recommending full out sprints for an injury prone runners, it´s better to stay healthy than injuring yourself. Do whatever that your body is able to handle. In this case the weights could be better to strengthen the legs/body, maybe trying sprints after you´re stronger (not bulkier). There are studies (Paavolainen) that strength training alone can improve 5k performance.

Oh? wrote:

To your basic premise (Raw speed is important and often overlooked in too many programs or LRC posters suggestions, and that there are plenty of coaches and LRC posters out there that confuse speed work - meaning workouts that improve raw speed - and "speed work" - almost any kind of anaerobic workout), I absolutely agree.

Exactly.

Bernie Madoff wrote:

Any recommendations for speed workouts? I was a fat kid growing up and just got into the running game... I hate that my basic speed is so low (probably can't break 16 for 100 m) and want to improve.

Quickly before heading to work:

1) very short accelerations (could be done on hills also), alactic

2) longer (up to 80m) sprints for maximum pace work (can be done after the accelerations)

3) 100-150 (or even some 200´s) at ~90-95% effort (anaerobic capacity) like 2-3x150+2-3x120+2-3x100m or so depending from the level of your anaerobic capacity and main event

~3-5min rec in between in all of these different type sprints

Getting stronger in the gym doesn´t harm either, don´t forget the core

It's a good point and I think often neglected by the 'just run more miles' crowd.

Obviously running a lot is the cornerstone of any endurance program and can't be understated but the old adage of 'if you want to run fast you have to run fast' is also a truism.

I have known a lot of guys who won't do 10x200m session as it's not enough volume and would rather do mile reps but it does miss a crucial aspect of the training needed to run fast. Your max speed over a longer distance is clearly influenced by your maximum speed over shorter. Now I'm not saying Usain Bolt just needs to run a few miles and he'll break 5k record, that's nonsense clearly. The explosiveness needed to start is the main thing for power/sprinters that distance runners lack and don't need as much. But top end speed is vital. If 2 runners can maintain 80% of their top speed over X distance the runner who can max out at 13 sec/100m is in a darn sight better position than the poor guy who can only run 16 sec/100m at full speed.

Look back at the logs of some of the 80's studs... Malmo, Steve Scott, Greg Meyer etc... lots and lots of pretty short hill reps (30-90 seconds) even though they raced over varying distances. Seb Coe & El G also regularly ran 300m hill repeats very fast. They're basically short, speed, power work outs. The hill is the added bonus as gives more resistance. I believe Malmo recounted a story after one of his marathons where he jumped into a 400m hill session with a load of milers and took them to school.

Even if you're a marathon runner once or twice a week hitting 10-15x30 second hill sprints can do wonders. Try it.

In general, how often might you recommend this kind of training for a distance focused person? Once a week? Twice a week? Should I take a test rest day after or would a medium length run be ok?

Good points. About Seb Coe, in his book he shares the five weeks leading to Los Angeles 800m silver and 1500m gold, where we can see a so called "cadence session" : 10 x 100m steady acceleration to 60m, maximum speed to 80m, then float to 100m. Also session of increasing speed with increasing distance: 11 sprints, progressing in distance from 100m to 200m in 10m increments.

2 examples of acceleration/sprints sessions from the book:

Session of short accelerations

1: 4x30m (85% max intensity) 2min rec/5min rec before the next set

2: 4x30m (90% max intensity) 2min rec/5min rec before the next set

3: 4x30m (95% max intensity) 2min rec/5min rec before the next set

4: 4x30m (100% max intensity) 2min rec

Sessions of longer sub-maximum sprints (anaerobic capacity)

1: 150-120-90-60m @ 95% max intensity / 3min walked recovery

2: 120-100-80-60m @ 95% / 2,5min walked rec.

"Some perspective is appropriate here for longer-distance runners and their coaches who are contemplating such short-distance work. First, athletes specializing in the 5k and longer will discover that such near all-out sprinting is very fatiguing when practiced hard for the first time. As always with specific training, the maxim is to run easy at first, become familiar with and adapted to the stress, and then raise the tempo as appropriate. The faster an individual´s maximal sustainable pace for even relatively short distances, the higher will be his or her sustainable submaximal longer paces. This is primarily because of improved neurological recruitment abilities."

Although this kind of hard sessions is suggested to be done in the weeks near the competitions, why not doing something for your sprinting speed year-round. Not always @ 100% because it´s too possibly much for the CNS to handle especially if done too often, but anything quite fast like the session you mentioned (10-15x30 second hill sprints) is great in the base phase for maintaining/improving the anaerobic capacity throughout the several weeks/months consisting higher mileage.

The OP sets up a straw man that doesn't really exist.

Over the last 10 years through several parts of youth and HS track and XC, my kid's coaches have done tons of "speed" stuff. They pretty much have to. The vast majority of kids today just don't have the attention span to run for even 20 minutes without getting "bored" and wanting to switch sports.

Even Runner's World stresses stride efficiency. See section #1 of this:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/solving-the-5k-puzzle

The real questions this thread brings up are how many different types of runners are there? Sprinters, middle distance and long distance for example. Leading to the question, how much time should each spend running really fast?

True sprinters are pretty much only going to do fast running with long rests.

What about true marathoners? Does fast running with long rest really do anything for slow twitch fibers that 5k pace won't?

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/how-muscle-fiber-recruitment-affects-running-performance

Then for the largest group, middle distance runners, things really get complex because some want to end up 800 runners who have maximized the speed of their intermediate fast twitch fibers and some want to end up like Mo Farah having maxed out their stamina without loosing their speed. Are these two different groups? How do you determine who fits in which group as athletes are just getting started?

Bernie Madoff wrote:

In general, how often might you recommend this kind of training for a distance focused person? Once a week? Twice a week? Should I take a test rest day after or would a medium length run be ok?

Once a week is plenty for a distance runner, the main thing is that you don´t neglect it for a long time. Every 10-14th day is enough for the neuromuscular system, and for maintaining the anaerobic capacity. No need to take a rest day afterwards, even a lactate threshold / a tempo run isn´t a problem, after you get used to it. Just make sure your muscles are ready to go fast (not too tight). I often did those the day after my long easy run, and even with a bit tired legs (lower glycogen mainly in my slow twitch fibers) it wasn´t a problem to sprint. The sunday long easy run tended to loosen my legs from the intense endurance workout the day before, and after the sprints I felt fresh and sharp.